
We’re in serious trouble. Many red lights are flashing on the dashboard.
Most people are now aware that something is seriously wrong, and each has their favorite lens through which to view the problems:
- Geopolitical: increasing nuclear war risk, trade wars, genocide.
- Political: polarized angry citizens, unstable governments, panicking/thrashing leaders.
- Economic: end of growth, declining living standards, widening wealth gap, inflation, accelerating unsustainable debt, asset bubbles.
- Environmental: accelerating climate change, species extinction, toxic forever chemicals, plastic waste, sick & dying trees from rising ground level ozone, etc.
- Health: increasing obesity, autism, and chronic diseases, declining lifespans, increasing depression and mental illness.
- Resources: peak food, peak oil, peak minerals, aquifer depletion, etc.
- Energy: reserve depletion, rising extraction costs, falling EROI, export land model, no renewable substitutes for non-renewable fossils, etc.
The common denominator to all of these problems is overshoot.
Very few people are able to see through the lens of overshoot because overshoot is a very unpleasant topic with no painless solutions and no way to avoid its consequences, and because humans evolved to deny unpleasant realities like overshoot.
Grok: Biological overshoot occurs when a population exceeds the carrying capacity of its environment, meaning it consumes resources faster than they can be replenished, leading to ecological imbalance. This is often seen in ecosystems where a species’ population grows beyond what the available resources (e.g., food, water, habitat) can sustainably support.
Causes: Rapid reproduction, lack of predators, abundant resources (temporarily), or human intervention (e.g., removing natural checks).
Consequences: Resource depletion, habitat degradation, population crashes, or ecosystem collapse. For example, a deer population might overshoot due to abundant food, then starve when resources run out.
Quantifying Overshoot: In ecology, overshoot can be measured by comparing population size N to carrying capacity K . If N>K, the system is in overshoot, often leading to a decline until N≤K.
Helpful Responses: Addressing overshoot requires restoring balance between population and resources.
What Should We Do?
I started this un-Denial blog 13 years ago after I became aware of our overshoot predicament, and a plausible theory by Dr. Ajit Varki for why almost no one can see the most important and obvious threat we face.
After a few years of discussing our overshoot issues I got tired of being a pessimist and wrote a prescription for what we should do. I thought it was pretty good at the time and represented a path that might actually help rather than the fantasy solutions with 100% probability of failing being promoted by millions of people with good intentions working on symptoms rather than the core overshoot problem.
My prescription for what we should do was in essence to minimize total suffering for all species by humanely reducing our population as fast as possible, and by planning and managing a controlled economic contraction, rather than allowing nature to force an uncontrolled collapse.
I understood that it would not be possible to implement my prescription unless the majority somehow could be made aware of our overshoot predicament, and this in turn required some method of overriding our genetic tendency to deny unpleasant realities. So I then spent several years promoting Dr. Ajit Varki’s MORT theory in the hope that experts in relevant domains would work discover a method to override MORT.
My efforts were a complete failure. Not only did I not succeed in engaging any brain or behavior experts, I was not even able to recruit any like-minded colleagues in the overshoot space who were also trying to find solutions.
I sadly concluded that it was not possible to override MORT because denial of denial is the strongest form of denial, probably because evolution, for good reasons, ensures that the Maximum Power Principal (MPP) trumps all other behaviors.
What Can We Do?
In recent years the insights of Hideaway on the role of complexity in sustaining our civilization have caused me to question the theoretical feasibility of my or any other prescription.
Hideaway explains that the use of any non-renewable resource degrades the quality of its reserves over time, and this requires increasing complexity to sustain supply of the resource, which requires growing economies and population, which consume more supply, which worsens the reserve quality, which means any civilization dependent on non-renewable resources must grow or it will collapse, which means a hard collapse is unavoidable and no mitigation paths exist.
Hideaway’s probably correct but it’s a tough pill to swallow.
I’m still struggling to accept Hideaway’s conclusion because I can imagine many things we could do to worsen our predicament, like for example starting a nuclear war, or by burning our remaining coal and gas reserves faster by using AI to create more enjoyable porn.
Given that we could do many things to increase the coming suffering, it seems reasonable to assume there must be some things we could do to reduce the coming suffering, which I believe is the only sensible goal left to us.
But what are the things we could do to reduce total suffering for all species?
I would love to see the readers of un-Denial offer their ideas in the comments below. If we get enough good ideas I will collate them into another post with a new prescription representing our collective wisdom.
What Could Someone Do?
I’m a long time follower and admirer of Jack Alpert and have posted some of his best work over the years.
For many years Alpert’s been a lone voice advocating rapid population reduction with the goals of reducing suffering and retaining some of our best accomplishments as the only species with science and advanced technology.
I very much like the goal of retaining some of our best science and technology post-collapse because I have some insight into how rare and precious our accomplishments are likely to be in the universe.
In addition, if you have any doubts about the importance of Alpert’s goal to retain some of the more valuable features of modernity, this video on what life was actually like in ancient Rome will set you straight.
I was pessimistic about the feasibility of Alpert’s plan because it required educating sufficient citizens to vote for population reduction policies and I knew from my MORT observations and failures that his education plan would most certainly fail due to our genetic tendency to deny unpleasant realities.
Nevertheless, I still like Alpert’s plan because setting aside the political feasibility of achieving a quorum, it at least was technically feasible and did not break the laws of physics or deny the reality of non-renewable resources as every other “plan” by every other “expert” does.
There is of course now a new technical feasibility question created by Hideaway’s complexity theory. It may not be possible to retain some of modernity’s most valuable technology without the 8 billion scale of our civilization. Let’s hand wave this away for now because I don’t know the specifics of what Alpert proposes to retain, and we need to think harder about the implications of Hideaway’s complexity theory in the context of a population that falls really fast, perhaps so fast that the requirement for growing complexity to maintain supply no longer applies. Suggest we continue this discussion in the comments below.
I was recently pleased to see a revised plan by Alpert that no longer requires a majority of citizens to vote for population reduction policies.
We are underestimating our predicament and underestimating the behaviors needed to unwind it.
Human civilization maybe sicker than we think. Maybe we should consider stronger medicine.
Abstract:
Consider a line that describes the delivery rate of fossil fuels to civilization. Each higher rate each year supported an ever larger global population with ever grander lifestyles.
Unfortunately, earth’s crustal limitations suggest this rate of energy delivery will decline back to its 1750’s level this century.
Unless energy deliveries from solar, wind, hydro, geo thermal, fission, and fusion can come online and replace lost fossil deliveries, human population and lifestyles will also drop back to the 1750’s levels.
Civilization will experience first scarcity; then conflict; and finally a self-reinforcing feedback loop called a scarcity conflict death spiral which will starve to death or kill in conflict most if the people who live this century.
When the behaviors that prevent this die off cause their own significant injuries the condition is called a predicament because people are injured with or without the prevention behavior.
In the last two minutes of this video I propose a behavior that causes much pain and prevents the injuries during civilization contraction. The video helps the chooser of the potential behavior quantify the injuries on each path.
After you view the video you may have important questions that need answers:
- Why do we have to make the transition in the next 80 years?
- Why can the earth (without fossil fuels) support only 600 million people living like serfs.
- Why does a new civilization that keeps our levels of arts and science support only 50 million people living like moderns?
In this latest plan Alpert proposes that a single expert could engineer a contagious virus to sterilize the human population.
It seems plausible to me that a single scientist with defective denial genes could be found and recruited for this task. People who can see reality are rare but they do exist.
I do have, however, serious doubts about the technical feasibility of engineering a safe and effective sterilization virus given that it’s required to override life’s primary mission, and given that a trillion dollar pharma industry with an army of scientists was unable to engineer or manufacture a safe and effective gene therapy for a virus they created and had the blueprints for.
How is one rogue scientist going to engineer a safe and effective highly contagious virus designed to override the primary objective of DNA honed by 4 billion years of evolution?
Nevertheless, I’m an electrical engineer with limited knowledge of genetic engineering so perhaps Alpert knows something I do not.
What Will We Do?
Our most likely path is the path we are on which is to use every psychological, accounting, and technology trick we can think of to keep growing the size of our economy and the complexity it depends on until we reach the end of the runway and crash with a spectacular collapse of supply chains, complexity, food, and population.
Unfortunately there will be a lot of suffering for humans and other species. The planet and its diversity of life will no doubt recover, but it will never achieve the pinnacle of rare complexity we enjoy today.
As we accelerate down the runway stresses will increase within countries and between countries. You can see these growing stresses everywhere today. There is a high probability that our leaders will do something in desperation that reduces the length of the runway.
It is likely that our most powerful weapons will be used when citizens of a resource unlucky country become envious and angry. As one recent example, a petulant little island nation off the coast of France that is collapsing because its oil and coal reserves are depleted is trying to provoke a nuclear war with a much larger and more powerful country on the opposite side of a large continent because it has some oil and gas that might sustain the lifestyles and entitlements of the island nation a little longer.
There is another darker scenario now being publicly discussed by very competent geopolitical experts like Col. Larry Wilkerson. In this interview last week Wilkerson explained why he is very worried about the growing threat of a nuclear war and that he fears for his grandchildren.
Wilkerson also said he knows powerful people who believe the solution to overpopulation and resource depletion is to kill billions with nuclear weapons. You can listen to these comments at 42:30 but I’d start earlier at around 33:30 for important context.
In this light, Jack Alpert’s sterilization virus starts to look pretty good.
In case you are not aware of it, I recommend the 2013 TV series Utopia which was about a plot to reduce the population with an engineered virus.
Norman Finkelstein: Gaza is lost forever.
https://www.npr.org/2025/01/22/nx-s1-5262884/gaza-israel-reconstruction-war-palestinians
A deep thoughtful conversation about world affairs.
“Those that should lead are not. Those that could lead are not.”
“If a man knows not to what port he steers, no wind is fair.”
We don’t know where we’re going and are drifting into very dark waters.
A recurring theme I see every day is that the best minds and experts do not understand what is going on or why.
If you do not understand energy, limits to growth, and overshoot, you understand nothing.
But you can’t understand those things with normal denial genes.
Which means almost no one has a clue.
Every day a wave of unbelievable news and before you can digest it there’s another wave.
Ten years ago I could not have imagined that our leaders would:
Don’t remember who here introduced me to Goobie but he just had a breakthrough in accepting his awareness. I hope he finds some inner peace now.
Just a quick how-to video from one of my favorite outdoor channels. These kinds of clips usually get dominated by male machismo comments talking about what pussies we’ve become. But surprisingly most of the comments are similar to this one:
Last night I watched The Perfect Storm (2000). Love that movie, but this was the first time I’ve seen it since becoming a doomer. Once again, funny what we notice with a little awareness under our belt. There are a few scenes where you have the loud triumphant Disney type music playing when they start doing well with the fishing. And they are just mutilating these fish. Jabbing them in the eyeball with spears, not killing them right away when they get on the boat. These scenes stood out like a sore thumb. And these are the feel-good moments of the movie!! By the end of the film, I was absolutely cheering for the storm to win.
I had a similar experience a while ago with another movie that I’ve always loved, Harry and the Hendersons (1987). LOL, no fishing in this one. But there were a handful of scenes where the dad is pleading with cops or hunters not to shoot Harry (bigfoot). “Don’t hurt him, he’s much more like us. Way more human than animal!”
The human supremacy runs so deep that I had to become a doomer in order to even notice this stuff.
ps. Got back into the music from my college days. The opening lyric here sums it up perfectly for when a doomer is in the company of normies.
LOL, so many good bands I ignored because they had stupid names.
Good talk today by Dr. Charlie Hall, the 82 year old originator of EROI, on the history of agriculture and energy.
In the Q&A Dr. William Rees tries to get Hall to say what he really thinks will happen when oil depletes and Hall after an hour of summarizing his life’s work that concludes we will collapse goes full on MORT and says we’ll think of something.
I really liked this presentation from Charley Hall, and yes cringed at his answer to Bill’s question at the end.
There is no way Charley does not understand what’s going to happen, yet appears to not want to say it out loud, possibly because he wants to keep credibility in the academic world, where mentioning ‘no way out’ gets you blackballed or he expects to no longer be taken seriously if he states it out loud.
One aspect I’ve noticed that all the experts like Bill Rees or Tom Murphy that are no longer scared to say the hard stuff out loud are no longer employed in the universities, they are all ‘Emeritus’ professors, basically meaning ‘retired’..
One exception seems to be Prof Tim Garrett but he tends to keep to climate stuff mostly. Tim Garrett is one of the 2 people I predicted Nate Hagens would never have as an interviewee. The other being Alice Friedmann, as they will both tell the story of no way out…
Hagens also will not interview Jack Alpert and warns other channels to not interview him.
Since I am a member of the Great Simplification Discord server, Maybe I should recommend Alice Friedemann and Tim Garrett as guests.
Why is he worried about that at 82 years old. Should be tinkering in his shed and garden at home.
Nice rant today against the US empire by Indrajit Samarajiva.
https://indi.ca/the-american-evisceration-of-ukraine/
Yesterday Indi did a humorous video rant against the country the US funds and arms to commit genocide on its behalf.
That would be the country that just nominated Trump for the Nobel peace prize. Seriously WTF?
The end of growth is causing us to lose our minds.
https://indi.ca/israels-worst-day-since-october-7th/
The “petulant little island nation” you’re mentioning is actually Great Britain.
You are correct, and they are a close second behind another little petulant state in the middle east for creating most of the mischief in the world.
How important are banks? The Irish banking strike as an example. Pubs replaced banks and new IOUs started popping up. The Central Bank of Ireland said in 1971 that “the Irish economy continued to function for a reasonably long period of time”
Alice Friedemann reviews a book I plan to read soon.
https://energyskeptic.com/2025/which-is-most-destructive-nuclear-weapons-or-mining-you-decide/
Do we know what Alice Friedemann thinks of MORT? https://energyskeptic.com/2025/telling-others-about-peak-oil would have been a great opportunity but no mention of it.
The only prominent person in the overshoot community that we know their opinion of MORT is Dr. Tom Murphy and he angrily said it is wrong without providing any facts that kill the theory.
Everyone else ignores it and is silent. Murphy also ignores it and is silent. He’s never a written an essay discussing it, we only know his opinion because I pestered him so much in the comments on his blog.
Dr. Nate Hagens interviewed Dr. Ajit Varki at my encouragement but the interview was never published due to technical problems. Hagens has never once discussed MORT or his discussion with Varki in any of his monologues.
Jay Hanson (godfather of doomers and mentor of Hagens) hated MORT and viciously attacked me for promoting it. I exited the debate after catching him being unethical by covering up the fact he completely misunderstood MORT and was arguing against something it did not claim.
Alex Smith of Radio Ecoshock interviewed Varki at my encouragement, clearly understood how MORT explains our climate change failures, and then promptly forgot the theory and never mentioned it again.
Rachel Donald of Planet Critical interviewed Varki, seemed to understand the significance of MORT, then never mentioned it again in hundreds of subsequent interviews with guests exploring why we are failing in all of our efforts to improve the future.
MORT is THE most important idea for anyone trying to find a better path for our species, yet it is ignored by the millions of people who have not given up on climate change, pollution, deforestation, etc. etc.. Every single one of those millions of people have completely failed to make a difference, and not one is interested in a theory that explains why they are failing.
For those like Hideaway (and now me) that understand complexity theory and know there is no way to avoid collapse, MORT is not helpful, but it is still interesting for explaining strange things like why there is only one species that believes in gods.
I still retain some hope that it might be possible to do something to reduce the suffering from overshoot collapse, because I know there are many things we can do to worsen the path and therefore there must be some things we can do to improve the path, however I struggle to offer concrete ideas other than avoiding nuclear war and reducing our population as fast as possible.
Here is an essay I wrote that explains where MORT fits within the matrix of people with different levels of awareness and/or caring:
https://un-denial.com/2020/10/23/the-un-denial-decision-tree/
Good essay. And as usual I got lost in the outstanding comments section. Once again Apneaman had my favorites. This one was from a different essay:
https://un-denial.com/2020/10/10/sabine-hossenfelder-on-free-will/#comment-24317
Rob, you were impressed and asked if he wanted you to promote that comment as a featured post.
At this point Apneaman is an imaginary made-up person to me. Too good to be true. I am so on the same page with this guy. Except we have one major difference. He was much better at keeping his ego in check. My doomer supremacy tells me I’m intellectually superior to most.😊 Only half joking.
When I found un-Denial I was very intimidated of some of you guys and gals. Not anymore. Put me in a room with anyone in the doomasphere. No problem, I know I can hold my own. Not saying I’m gonna out-debate anyone, but I can definitely hang with anyone.
ps. Hey monk, I know you’re working on a deep time essay. I found this cool video in the comments and thought it might interest you if you haven’t already seen it.
Thanks for reminding me again about Apneaman. I miss him very much. I just reached out asking him to come back. I doubt he will but let’s hope.
yeah apneaman was real good. New his stuff. Then he just cracked the shits and left which is a pity. I have seen him commenting g on other blogs so I think he’s still around.
Does anyone know how to create HTML tables in word press? I plan to post a final draft of a guest post as a comment and it features an html table.
If you send me the table as a text file, like you did a few months ago, I can use the WordPress editor to create a table.
This AI-generated video fooled many people. I couldn’t tell it was a deep fake, until the guy said it was.
What happens when a society can no longer tell the difference between reality and fiction?
Exactly, it wasn’t a lion at all. It was actually a leopard. (-:
Saludos
el mar
Candidate explanations for our overshoot predicament so far include:
Tom Murphy today adds to the list language and writing.
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2025/07/the-writing-on-the-wall/
I think Murphy’s missing the point. There are many unique things in addition to language and writing about the brain of behaviorally modern homo sapiens.
https://un-denial.com/denial-2/human-uniqueness/
The question is, why is there only one species out of millions that evolved such a brain?
Its powers have enabled it to dominate the world and multiply to 8+ billion which means there are strong selective pressures for other species to evolve similar brains and yet it has happened only once. Why?
Dr. Ajit Varki and his MORT theory provide a plausible answer. MORT also explains other unique things about the human brain such as why it is the only brain that believes in gods.
I was under the impression that Tom was a big Michael Dowd fan. But this post tells me he wasn’t. Michael loved to preach about the evils of the written word. First time I ever heard the idea I laughed out loud and contemplated that this Dowd guy might not be worth following. But soon enough, writing was high on my list of “where it all went wrong”.
Trying to think of other things that have been on that list at some point during my journey… agriculture, fossil fuels, the plow, concept of personal property, money, a shift from matriarchal to patriarchal societies… I guarantee there’s more, I just can’t remember. LOL, lots of moments in there where I thought I had it all figured out… and I was gonna help steer humanity back into our true purpose of living in harmony with nature and Mother Earth’s children.😊
Recently I was doing my normal thing of trying to push fire with this comment:
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2025/06/spare-capacity/#comment-15616
Tom’s reply about fire making his list is definitely a step in the right direction, but still way too casual. Fire is laughably too big to be sharing the spotlight. Pretty obvious though why this happens. With everything else on those “where it all went wrong” lists, you can still easily paint a rosy picture of humans with purpose and all that bullshit… much more difficult to paint that rosy picture when fire is the only thing on your list.
Here’s one way to think about it that makes us all correct:
I focused on MORT because if you want any hope of changing the trajectory you must first see reality. Now that we understand that MORT will never be acknowledged by the majority due to denial of denial, and that the collapse of complexity cannot be prevented if a species depends on non-renewable resources, and that exploitation of fire makes the climate incompatible with the exploiting species, it doesn’t matter what you prefer to focus on. They are all valid and interesting perspectives.
Excellent!! I really like that breakdown.
Now think of what the odds are for life in the universe to come up with those precise calculations. Gotta be a gazillion to one. I need a supercomputer to figure it out.
It’s even more improbable if you add the need for a planet with just the right combination of climate, biology (such as plants with lignin before fungi learned to eat it), and active geology, to grow gigantic quantities of biomass, bury it before it decomposed, and cook it at just the right temperature to create useful fossil carbon solids, liquids, and gases.
Our existence and us having this conversation is a reason for awe and gratitude.
I tried to leave it alone but that last word bugs me too much.😊
100% with you on the awe. 0% with you on the gratitude.
I understand and don’t think you’re wrong. There’s more than one correct way to view the same facts. A glass half full is also a glass half empty.
I’m trying to find ways to see something positive in our situation. I often don’t succeed but I’m trying.
Perhaps we need to think the other way round: the possibility of creating our civilization did not seek out a suitable planet, but rather the planet that came into being by chance brought forth the possibilities for evolution that were available within it.
Saludos
el mar
A quick note: Electrical energy is not carried by electrons themselves, but by electric and magnetic fields.
Trump’s decisions have a half-life of a few days.
U.S. and Israel Gangsterism Has Created a Hobbesian International State of Nature
https://www.blackagendareport.com/us-and-israel-gangsterism-has-created-hobbesian-international-state-nature
I fear that this Barbarism will get a lot worse as we increasingly run into resource constraints.
Regarding your word ‘Barbarism’. I like to think that people here are past moral judgements. Playing nice is advantageous when the pie is getting larger and therefore is rewarded. But there is always a sucker, a gradient to be consumed. Be it a school of fish, a mammoth or any other living being who would also like to keep their homeostasis. To me morals imply some kind of possible return to a paradise where no one is harmed, some kind of utopia. “The wolf shall live with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the kid, the calf and the lion and the fatling together, and a little child shall lead them” which is from the Bible. This will never be, thermodynamics doesn’t allow that. Instead we are hurling towards death and decay (or non-useable energy if you will) and that’s okay. Or at least it’s the only way that is and it think this is one of the *very* few places that should accept reality for what it is.
I remember in the middle of covid after failing to convince anyone in my small circle of friends and family that mRNA transfections were dangerous and unnecessary thinking that maybe we’d see a repeat of climate change denial where it was the property insurance companies raising rates due to extreme weather claims that finally convinced the majority of citizens that climate change was real.
Chris Martenson today discusses problems health and life insurance companies are experiencing due to higher than expected sickness and death claims.
I never watched MADtv back in the day. Probably some good sketches I missed out on. Just found this one from 1997 (h/t bélalugrisi). The original MAGA.😊
I Like People: It’s Just Civilization I Can’t Stand | how to save the world
Shhh, be careful not to wake him. Dave Pollard is asleep at the wheel and in dream mode right now. LOL. It’s ok though. I do the same thing when trying to justify how the collapse of civilization is a good thing. George Carlin says it a little bit better here:
If you tell me that humans are gonna lose their full consciousness status (ok fine, let’s go with the much better description of “mortality salience”😊), then Dave’s delusional fantasy might actually play out and stay that way. But if their mortality salience is still the same… then take a picture because it aint gonna last. It’s just a snapshot of a brief moment in time. Like the snapshot of pre–Columbus Native Americans (or pick your favorite romanticized time or tribe).
Life’s constant pursuit for profit and growth will always guarantee that a species with the ungodly advantages that come with fire, will never fit into the web of life. The looming threat of being a one-man wrecking crew for everybody else… a megacancer… will always be attached to that species.
All these absurd predictions of Earth’s carrying capacity of humans… 1 or 2 billion… 100 million… C’mon already. You know it and I know it… the correct answer is zero.
Hey Dave… Get up, you’re asleep at the wheel!!! 😂
Asleep At The Wheel
Trump’s Insane plan for Gaza.
Israel wishes it could do to Palestinians, what the US, Canada and Australia did to their indigenous peoples.
Examples of the growing collapse community in the young. Andrea P describes a hunter gatherer future (or worse) .
Thanks, good essay.
I feel bad for aware young people like Andrea P.
https://context101.substack.com/about
Some examples of what to expect from her essay:
The podcast “Breaking Down: Collapse” which she mentioned and which I have not heard of has 156 episodes to date. Not one discusses MORT. I’m a failure.
The examples in Mali, Syria, and Indonesia show why population reduction is a necessity.
I not that young myself, but I am teaching young doctors and students in a smallish hospital (3500 employees). There is some cognitive dissonance in with the prescribed curriculum and whats possible. I have sent a couple of chemical professors into un-denial where have suggested research on pharmaceuticals from biogass (its to complex, I know), when the naturalgass runs out. One should think chemical professors should know that the feedstock for pharmaceuticals is naturalgas?
I’ve said it many times but the fact that almost all super smart experts and polymaths do not see the most important facts I think is strong evidence that MORT is valid.
So many layers to us onions. 🙁
Andril Zvorygin, leader of the world famous Peak Oil Chat, and advocate for sustainable lifestyles, thinks part of the solution is for Christianity to replace Islam.
Ideally, Animism would replace both of them.
B today does his own analysis of official energy data and exposes that which authorities attempted to obscure.
https://thehonestsorcerer.substack.com/p/the-tale-of-two-energy-transitions
The Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory has been producing great charts on energy usage in the U.S. for a number of years. Here is the chart for 2023:
Quite a dramatic visual. What they diplomatically call “rejected energy” is the energy waste. The percentages have barely budged since they started doing these charts some years ago.
That is a great visualization.
Do you know if fossil carbon feedstocks for chemicals and materials are included in the above flows?
I doubt it. It seems like the chart was developed on a strictly energy-in-energy-out basis, not what was needed to make that energy available.
You raise another issue.
I was referring to the oil and gas we use as material rather than energy to make fertilizer, plastic, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, asphalt, etc.
It looks like Hideaway has influenced Dr. Tim Morgan’s thinking about complexity although it seems Morgan has not yet grasped the self-reinforcing feedback implications of falling complexity.
I can’t wait to see Hideaway’s reply…
Definitely seeing a progression in his thought, but he’s not quite there yet. Still as repetitive and plodding as usual, but I’ll still keep stopping by there on occasion.
Over 50 people have died due to flooding in Texas.
https://www.cnn.com/weather/live-news/texas-flooding-camp-mystic-07-06-25-hnk
I wonder if we have emitted enough CO2 to trigger a meltwater pulse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meltwater_pulse_1A
https://www.ipolitics.ca/2025/07/02/its-too-late-david-suzuki-says-the-fight-against-climate-change-is-lost/
David Suzuki says that we have lost the fight against climate change…
I think it’s been too late to avoid a climate incompatible with civilization for quite a few years. The only question is how long will it take?
The only thing that will save us from extreme climate change is the depletion of easily accessible fossil fuels.
That used to be the only technically feasible hope. I think we’re in trouble now even if emissions go to zero.
Good comment over there from Mark Bevis.
Surprisingly, we didn’t get much engagement on that Rees interview you posted above. But ya, I agree with Mark. Bill was much more anti-human than usual. I also got the feeling he’s sick of talking to stupid people. I left this comment couple days ago:
ps. Mark, do you lurk here? I see your comments all over the place… and they’re usually always good. You should post here. It’ll give you some street cred.😊
I believe Rees bought the mRNA transfection propaganda. I’ve tuned him out since.
Even though he may be wrong on that issue, he is right on overshoot. Also, you don’t read or watch William Rees for medical advice.
Killing 20+ million people via gain of function bioweapons research and unethical unscientific responses to the resulting disease is a very big deal, and denying what happened is a strong indicator of intelligence, morality, and integrity, or MORT.
I agree that they never should have done gain-of-function research in the first place.
But this raises an interesting question: Why would our leaders do this. So far, I don’t see any plausible motives for them to kill 20+ million people, leading me to believe that the deaths from the Covid response are unintentional. Even though many of our leaders are sociopaths and psychopaths, I don’t believe that they would simply kill large numbers of people for no reason. Since our leader seems to mostly be in denial about overshoot, population reduction doesn’t seem like a plausible motive. And even though some pharmaceutical companies made money from the response, there are many factions of the ruling class each with its own interests, meaning pushing mRNA solely to enrich big pharma doesn’t seem very plausible either.
I have said before, that I think they rushed the mRNA “vaccines” because they wanted to appear in control of the situation and that later doubled down on them due to a mixture of MORT and the sunk cost fallacy. I have reached this conclusion mostly by applying Occam’s razor. The response to Covid is bewildering, and it is hard to find plausible explanations.
An Addition to the above comment:
Political leaders have killed large numbers of people in the past (and are still doing so today), but there was always a motives often a combination of the following: land/resources, political power, and ethnic/racial/religious hatred. I just don’t see any such motivation for the Covid Crimes. Is there something I am missing?
They did not intentionally kill 20 million.
Bioweapons research was funded by the US government in Wuhan to circumvent its own laws banning gain of function research in the US. The leak was probably a mistake.
An “emergency” was fomented and used as an excuse to fast track approval of a novel mRNA transfection technology pharma needed to grow their business. This unsafe and ineffective technology killed and harmed many people. Alternate safe, effective, and inexpensive treatments were blocked to enable the mRNA emergency use authorization.
These bad decisions encouraged many variants of the virus that remain a problem today with unknown but probably bad implications for the future.
NOT ONE person has been held to account for 20+ million deaths.
NOTHING has been done to prevent a recurrence.
NO lessons were learned.
I think it’s just a matter of time that the majority of the population realizes it. Which could be the last nail in the coffin, because many of the few that still fought to keep the raising of temperatures at stake will think that’s useless to fight a lost battle and will just opt to live like everyone else until the end, which of course will arrive much sooner. Or maybe this realization will trigger wars for resources sooner and more violent than expected.
When there’s nothing that can be done to fix the problem, knowledge about it can only lead to things unraveling faster…
I like indi’s post today. How The White Empire Is Collapsing Outwards — indi.ca
For some reason indi got me thinking about why almost everyone on my tv is black or latino. And I’ve never seen so many mixed marriages. If television was your only source to view people, you’d think same-race marriages were now illegal. LOL
I think I’ve touched on this before, that ever since the George Floyd riots, black people now do all the advertising for house cleaning products. It will never not be hilarious to me. My whole life it was someone like the mom from The Brady Bunch… fake and lame. Still fake and lame of course, but now it’s more “in your face” because of society’s idiocracy obsession for the loud & obnoxious (Jerry Springer show, Real Housewives of Atlanta, Jersey Shore, etc). So instead of the Florence Henderson route, the advertisers go with an athlete or rapper type who is so impressed that this mop n glo gets his kitchen floor shiny that he has to scream about it. (to use an extreme example here, think of that clown Kevin Hart)
One of the biggest benefits of overshoot will be that we won’t ever get to the full completion of this transformation shitshow. Keep BAU going for another hundred years… and our entire population (and all cultures) will be whitewashed and morphed into one.
ps. If you’re a fan of Kevin Hart, you probably also liked Carlos Mencia, as well as the Blue-Collar Comedy Tour w/ Jeff Foxworthy & Larry the cable guy. You need to hear this from a trusted source, so let me be the one to say it; you have horrible taste in comedy my friend.😂
pss. Something weird was going on with my oven today when I was trying to use the self-cleaning function. Felt like it got up to 3,000 degrees. Reminded me of this line from one of my favorite comedies.
Our oven control circuit board conked out several years ago; we found an outfit that refurbishes control boards. They said that the oven self-cleaning feature does a number on circuit boards, because the temperatures are very high. (BTW, the service we used is Circuit Board Medics — they did a great job)
But be careful. Appliance circuit boards have a no return policy. If you misdiagnose the problem you are out of luck. Happened to me when I tried to repair a dishwasher. Had to eat a $100+ circuit board plus the cost of a replacement dishwasher.
I watched Burbs right around the time I became peak oil aware in 2007 and rated it 3 out 10 which means I thought it was crap. The reviews are very good. I wonder if the problem was my frame of mind? I’ll give it another go.
It’s been a family favorite for 35 years, so I’m bias, but ya try it again. Would be surprised if you still think the same. Over the years it’s been one of my highest successful recommendations to friends.
Nice story from Mike Stasse illustrating how much complexity is required to use “renewable” energy.
I prefer the simplicity of kerosene although when supply chains break down I have no idea whether kerosene or batteries and inverters will disappear first.
Canadian Prepper did a very good job interviewing Dr. Ted Postol on how US leaders are incompetent by authorizing an attack on Iran that was guaranteed to fail and therefore has a high probability of causing Iran to develop a nuclear weapon and to retaliate, just like the US did after it was surprise attacked by Japan.
Happy Independence Day… USA! USA! USA!
LOL, I’d like to write something, but I’ve got nothing swirling in my head. I’ll just go with what I wrote last 4th of July. https://un-denial.com/2024/06/13/coping-with-awareness/#comment-101795
Any idea when Trump is going to take over Canada so we can join you in celebrating independence day?
Yes, by this time next year. Except it won’t just be Canada. Will be every country. And instead of Independence Day, will be called Unification Day.
What ever problems you have with the Canadian government, Trump’s America probably has those same problems, just worse. Plus, I need a place where I can claim asylum if Trump becomes a dictator.
There is no hope. The end is near. 🙂
Canadian Prepper just collapsed.
He is selling or closing down his prepping store and will now only do YouTube videos.
Trump, as his administrations smears pro-Palestinian protestors as “anti-Semites”, casually uses an anti-Semitic trope at a rally in Iowa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shylock
Expect more fireworks this weekend.
Move along, nothing to see here.
The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.
-Albert Bartlett.
It’s comforting to know that Hideaway is wrong. The Peak Oil Chat boys imply that geothermal and solar hydrogen will maintain the complexity and climate our civilization needs to keep 8 billion comfortable.
Then Simon Michaux gave an odd presentation on China’s strategy to dominate the west via control of minerals and manufacturing. “They’ve got their grubby little paws in everything”. It wasn’t clear what the purpose of this presentation was. Perhaps to rally us against an evil enemy?? Or maybe it’s simply a man trying to make a living by morphing an unprofitable overshoot story into a profitable geopolitical threat story.
The last section was good where they discussed pressures in the economy and how and when things might unwind.
LOL, Of course you made me look, and spend over 2 hrs watching/listening..
I’m pretty sure I have a bridge between Mars and Jupiter I could sell Andrii, by using slick marketing and missing all the important details, as he seems to have bought the geothermal dream with minimal evidence.
Of course my bridge would have a few secret parts under patent, but we have the technology and the materials, trust me..
Apologies to Andrii, he is always trying his hardest, but he has the denial gene very badly, and is always searching for a way out. Like most of humanity, he cannot accept that what is, is all there is. There is no meaning or purpose to life, all it does is increase entropy, a natural process of the universe.
Then there was Dan’s part of all the curtailment of wind in Texas already, meaning that there was something like 16TWh of wind energy available now to turn wind into hydrogen, operating 24/7/365 days would produce xxx tonnes per year..
What garbage.. The curtailment is not happening 24/7/365 days, it’s happening some of the time, all at once.
To build enough equipment to account for all the excess wind would be hugely expensive in energy, material and monetary terms, then sit idle most of the time, so highly uneconomic and a waste of resources building it all. It’s a huge aspect of building excess of anything, that most people don’t seem to want to understand.
….
Towards the end, there was great disagreement between Dan and Roger over the USGS interpretation of undiscovered oil in Nevada. Dan pointing out how the geology didn’t exist because of known drill holes for copper, uranium etc, while Roger was insistent that the USGS was really good, so wouldn’t make that type of mistake.
It’s easy to prove the USGS is totally wrong with their world ‘copper reserves’ number, so I’m definitely on Dan’s side of this. While the USGS uses and states the correct definition of reserves, in one part of their documentation; (reserves are the economic proportion (as in make a profit) of resources that are mineable using today’s technology and prices); in another they count known resources as reserves. Their quantity listed for Australia, which are 10% of global reserves, is an absurd number counting all uneconomic resources and are overinflated by 60-80%.
They may as well include all the known PPM quantity of copper in the crust as ‘reserves’, as it’s as meaningful as the method they have used. (BTW that number is around 1,385 Trillion tonnes at a rough estimate of a crustal 50ppm).
Their numbers cannot be trusted at all in copper reserves from my own research, so I expect they are just as inaccurate/misleading in all their other calculations of everything.
Interesting that Simon can see a crash ahead in the next few years, by mid 2030’s from his latest research on the complexity that’s happening around the world on the geopolitical front along with his knowledge of commodity prices going weird.
It seems like he has put most of the pieces together, but still hasn’t added complexity and market size into his calculations that allows our technology to gain the metals, minerals, other materials, food and water that is required to sustain 8.2+ billion humans, yet he also does understand all the damage being done to the environment by modernity.
For me it was the understanding of scale and complexity that were the final pieces of the overall puzzle of civilization. Money, resources, technology, climate, pollution were all pieces of the puzzle, but it never fitted together until I understood the importance of our huge growing market size in the role of allowing all our technology to be built, maintained and increase.
It’s all interrelated, and studying one aspect in detail while giving a hand wave to any other part, means missing the big picture entirely, yet every part of the overall puzzle of civilization is a giant field by itself with no-one able to understand the full intricacies of all the sub parts.
For example get the 50 best oil geologists in the world together, give them 50 container loads of all the pieces (as in totally separated individual pieces down to nuts, bolts, washers, small wires separating each bit of circuit boards etc), of an oil drill rig and ask them to put it all together so it works….They wouldn’t have a clue how to do it, yet the ‘results’ from what many thousands of oil rigs across the world have found, is what their entire livelihood is totally dependent upon.
Now take a group of 50 people that could put the oil rig together, as in mechanics, electrical engineers etc, that had already spent their entire lives doing such things with oil rigs. What would happen if these people only had the raw materials and had to shape them all into the correct pieces first, before they could even start assembling it? Would they know what proportion of steel, nickel, chromium etc that would go into making the stainless steel bolts, as compared to a stainless steel flange somewhere else which has a different ratio of metals for different reasons??
Humans are mostly clueless outside their area of expertise and have always had the tendency of the hand wave for the difficulty of everything else. Hence why Simon can come up with his small utopia based on a thorium reactor, or Andrii can come up with geothermal as a savior, or Dan’s hydrogen from wind..
People just don’t want to believe the simple conclusion, that civilization is a process of increasing entropy, then when the concentrated materials have been dissipated as much as physically possible, by the energy available, the process ceases. It’s a physical process, as in governed by the laws of physics, that is the same in stars, storms, ecosystems and individual living organisms.
Excellent critique. You should copy and paste this as a comment on the YouTube video. They might invite you to participate as a regular where you can set them straight because most of them do seem to want to understand the truth.