By Ajit Varki: Why Men Are Destroying the Planet (Planet: Critical Interview)

Dr. Ajit Varki is a co-originator of the Mind Over Reality Transition (MORT) theory which explains why my species exists with its uniquely power intelligence, and why, despite this intelligence, is unable to see and act on its obvious state of overshoot that threatens the survival of itself and many other species.

I started this blog in 2013 to spread awareness of Dr. Varki’s theory because I believe all possible paths to reducing the coming suffering caused by overshoot must start with an understanding of MORT.

Evidence for this is that to date all environmental initiatives, climate change agreements, energy transition plans, degrowth movements, etc. have utterly failed to change our trajectory, and I’m certain will continue to fail, unless MORT is acknowledged.

It’s simply not possible to craft a useful to response to our overshoot reality until the majority becomes aware that a powerful genetic force is blocking its ability to see the reality.

Unfortunately, there’s a Catch-22: MORT predicts that MORT will be denied and therefore if MORT is correct then MORT will never be acknowledged.

Perhaps someone smarter than me will figure out a path around this Catch-22, I don’t know. Regardless, I still find value in MORT because it keeps me sane by providing a scientific explanation for why so many are so blind to so much that is so obvious.

The Catch-22 may explain why after 10 years of work I have built very little momentum and have scant few successes at spreading awareness of MORT into the 99% of citizens and leaders that aggressively deny reality.

The last interview with Dr. Ajit Varki occurred in 2017 at my prompting by Alex Smith of Radio Ecoshock. Unfortunately, as predicted by MORT, Alex shortly thereafter forgot about MORT and has spent the last 6 years reporting on the coming climate disaster and wondering why we do nothing meaningful about it. If you listen to the interview you will see that Alex at the time understood the answer, then his brain subsequently blocked this understanding.

I was pleased to learn that Varki was interviewed yesterday by Rachel Donald of Planet: Critical. Thank you to Rachel for her initiative, I played no role in setting up this interview. I have been impressed by some of Rachel’s prior work such as this interview she did with Joseph Merz.

Let’s hope that Rachel’s denial genes are sufficiently defective, like mine, so that she helps to spread the MORT message on an ongoing basis. MORT is central to everything that Rachel reports on so we’ll know shortly if she has normal denial genes and is captured by the Catch-22.

In the interview Varki introduces a new idea by proposing that we put more females in positions of power. Apparently females tend to deny reality less than males, as demonstrated by their higher rate of depression, and are more empathetic, both qualities we desperately need today.

Given the 50/50 polarized nature of politics today it does not take much of a voting block to swing an outcome. Perhaps if we target females with overshoot awareness they will abandon useless left/right politics and vote as a block for female leaders that support the only policy that will reduce suffering and improve every problem we face: population reduction.

Who’s in denial now? 🙂

If you are unfamiliar with the MORT theory, this is a very nice introduction by Dr. Varki:

If you want more detail on MORT, this 2019 paper by Dr. Varki is the best source, as it expands and clarifies the ideas presented in his 2013 book.

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250 Comments

AJ
AJ
March 21, 2023 8:28 am

If the West losing in Ukraine while threatening nuclear holocaust and collapse wasn’t enough to get your attention (and depress your optimism circuit) – then we have ECONOMIC COLLAPSE on tap for you. . .

Mac10 today was beyond depressing. Are we going to have a financial system in a few days, weeks, months? Or will we be chasing armed people off our property trying vainly to protect what little is left to eat? Neither sound real nice. Maybe I should just deny it’s as bad as he makes it sound?
https://zensecondlife.blogspot.com/2023/03/third-world-bailout.html
AJ

monk
March 20, 2023 3:11 pm

I think there is value in being able to accurately describe our predicament(s). As things unravel, being able to understand what is happening to us will lesson the likelihood of people lashing out at their preferred minority groups (etc.).

Mike Roberts
March 20, 2023 2:59 am

For me, it’s busy prepping. So much to do.

However, I must also get round to re-reading the Flatland essays from Dave Cohen’s, now dormant, Decline Of The Empire blog. I think they are key to understanding humans. Here is a link to the fourth one (but only because it includes links to the others – start with the first, if you read them): https://www.declineoftheempire.com/2017/03/adventures-in-flatland-part-iv.html

MickN
MickN
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 20, 2023 11:31 am

Thanks for the reminder Mike. I printed them out way back when and must read them
again. A grumpy but brilliant man. Probably driven grumpy by living surrounded by Flatlanders. He certainly took no prisoners in the comments.

Mike Roberts
Reply to  MickN
March 20, 2023 5:59 pm

Indeed, Mick. He didn’t suffer fools gladly but I loved his writing, so clear.

AJ
AJ
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 20, 2023 4:37 am

Always stressed, but Spring is arriving and it’s time to get started doing garden prep (bees, last biochar application, turning the ground cover over by hand (shovel), starting seeds). Oh, and finding time to watch all the videos posted above.
AJ

Gaia gardener
Gaia gardener
Reply to  AJ
March 20, 2023 4:57 am

Hi AJ, I see you pipped my post by one minute, are you up early or what? Just wanted to say I hope you had a happy birthday, did you have a big family celebration, after all, you have achieved 70 years, marking the proverbial three score and ten, not a small feat!

Aren’t we just stupid lucky that our planet has its tilt so we have our seasons? I know it’s all pretty elemental physics but it still never fails to amaze me that life on earth follows this rhythm and rhyme at its core. Whilst you are busy with Spring garden tasks, it’s full-on Autumn harvest here and tucking in trees for their time of rest. Somehow we always look forward to another Spring, if that’s not the ultimate expression of hope (or denial?) I don’t know what is under the sun.

Wishing you and your family all the best.

AJ
AJ
Reply to  Gaia gardener
March 20, 2023 5:38 am

Thanks for the birthday wishes. It’s in two weeks still;) I’m an April fool.
I have always been an early riser. Now day the chickens want out of their coop and to get those egg producers going I let them out an hour early.
I’m not really looking forward to spring. I’m getting a little tired of all the chores, but it is better than the middle of winter where you are stuck in doors in a dark gloomy rainy environment (I love the desert – can’t grow much there though).
Have a nice fall day!
AJ

Gaia gardener
Gaia gardener
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 20, 2023 4:38 am

Happy Equinox everyone! I’ve been off radar in terms of posting but still check into my favourite blog every day. I have been especially touched by the recent exchanges that invite us to surrender to that innermost sense of just being, and that is enough. Surely the longest, often hardest and loneliest path is that from our heads to our hearts, but from this journey all else finds direction and place. Hey, it’s been exactly one year since my first post! Time has flown, kinda like how a toilet paper roll goes faster the closer to the end! I think every day now is like a compressed year of contemplating our existentialism, now that the time is contracting so clearly for our species. Somehow the planet still turns and orbits with us on it doing our best to derail it with all of our shenanigans, and yet it continues to tolerate our presence for a while longer. No wonder cultures since time immemorial have called Earth our Mother, as only a mother could accept her wayward child with such patience! So, although I do try to seek peace in every day, it’s been more than a bit of choice number 3 here, how can one not feel the collective angst?

It’s been full-on autumn harvest of fruits here in Tasmania so that fits answer number 2, as well. It’s nice to know one has an abundance of fruit for one’s family (the apples and pears were stupendous this year) but I am always wondering if there will be enough to go around when the time of scarcity and requirement knocks upon our doors. Prepping for ourselves alone will not be the answer when societal collapse happens, the key will be making it through the transition time in relative stability and then having enough societal organisation left to continue. I have nominated one pear tree in particular to receive the MVP award amongst all our fruit trees, it has over 500 fruit on it, a lovely juicy crisp Nashi (Asian pear). It gives me some comfort to think that even our trees can sense the urgency and are rallying to give it their all, but hopefully not a totally last ditch effort?

As for being tired of your and others’ most well-intentioned and on the pulse contributions to the sanity space, well, I think we all hope that the day this blog ends will be when the lights go off for the last time, and I will offer my best Hopium that will be a ways off yet. Thank you everyone for just being here and doing your brave and true thing however and wherever you can. I feel very humbled and privileged to see you and for you to see me.

Namaste.

Mike Roberts
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 20, 2023 5:57 pm

Should be OK, though I prefer fresh fruit every day. Drying does concentrate the sugars but if they are wrapped in their fibre jackets, it should be fine, I think. There is usually a small amount of dried fruit in my raw sprouted muesli, which I have with the fruit, coconut yogurt and kefir, every day.

Any joy with the kefir? It was almost a miracle cure for my aches but everyone is different. I just did a couple of hours of double digging with no after effects.

monk
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 20, 2023 1:30 pm

stressed due to work 😉

Hamish McGregor
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 19, 2023 3:44 am

Prepping is no longer a fringe tin-foil activity. Canadian Prepper (Nate Polson) has 1 million subscriptions.

monk
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 19, 2023 3:38 pm

I love his channel. He regularly admits he uses click bait titles and thumbnails to compete with the tik tok minds.

CampbellS
March 18, 2023 5:41 pm

Rob did you see this latest Planet Critical interview with the director of https://www.populationbalance.org/? Seemed a reasonable discussion.

AJ
AJ
Reply to  CampbellS
March 19, 2023 1:14 pm

I thought this was an interesting discussion. They both see that population and consumption are part of the problem of overshoot AND that both have to be brought down. Neither of them seem aware that there is no 20, 30 or 100 years to go to solve this problem. Both don’t seem to want to address collapse. Denial?
AJ

AJ
AJ
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 19, 2023 5:00 am

My feeling is that one day (maybe soon) we will find many shuttered banks, no ATM’s working and no credit/debit card terminals working and stores that are open not accepting cash. It is a frightening prospect because everything financial could collapse in the literal blink of an eye. It’s what I have been planning for the last 15 years but it will still come as a shock and I’m sure to lose a lot of money and equity. But, that’s what collapse is and sad to say that’s what happens in overshoot. Still even though I will be vindicated in my knowledge it will be sad and frightening.
AJ

AJ
AJ
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 19, 2023 9:28 am

I meant to say that initially I don’t think stores will take credit or debit (how would they clear it initially and then when they submit it?). I hope they take cash but then if the banking system is in doubt where would they put their cash or what would they do with it? Cash becomes questionable without banks. What would they do with the stock on hand? Barter? for what?
I read an interesting post this morning on The Automatic Earth (link to Mish Talk). Not a final solution, because short of collapse everything is a stalling action. But an interesting take on banking I have never heard before.
https://mishtalk.com/economics/the-perfect-solution-to-the-banking-crisis-is-to-make-a-truly-safe-bank
AJ

monk
Reply to  AJ
March 20, 2023 1:29 pm

I was in India when they did the demonetisation of all ₹500 and ₹1,000 notes. Overnight, everyone stopped accepting cash. If you can get a billion people in one day to stop believing in the current cash, you can more than easily do it in Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

Hamish McGregor
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 17, 2023 6:18 am

Your comment was either removed or didn’t post.

AJ
AJ
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 17, 2023 1:05 pm

I’m incensed that the Dems did everything they could to support the narrative and quash any dissenting opinion. I will never again trust any politician, left or right.
AJ

monk
March 16, 2023 7:29 pm
nikoB
nikoB
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 15, 2023 5:07 am

totally agree.

monk
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 13, 2023 9:47 pm

We don’t even have depositors insurance in New Zealand at all 🙁

jim
jim
March 13, 2023 8:56 am

Ok Rob let me provide some push back against MORT.

On a scientific level – please provide the causal linkages between a slight change in the pattern of sequences in a biopolymer (a gene in DNA) to the belief in an afterlife? How many hand wavey steps are needed ?

Philosophically – Taking Schumpeter’s the World as Will and Representation as a starting point, we don’t deal directly with reality, we combine inputs from the outside world that move through our evolved senses and the structures of our brains and minds to create a representation of reality. If we pay close attention to both our representations of reality and what actually happens, we will find that sometimes our representations of reality are not accurate. So, it should not come as a surprise that people learn to Doubt Representations of Reality. No denial genes needed, just a learned ability to doubt representations of reality.

I think DRR ( Doubting Representations of Reality ) is a much more reasonable general principle than MORT (Mind over Reality Theory).

jim
jim
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 13, 2023 11:53 am

ummm… you are missing the big difference between denial and doubt,
Denying all your representations of reality is not the idea, learning to doubt the accuracy of your representations of reality is the idea.

And i would argue the more abstract the representation of reality the easier it is to doubt. For example we both have this abstract notion that ecological overshoot is the most accurate way to understand our shared situation, most others find it easy to doubt this representation of reality because they don’t see the crisis happening and have heard similar ideas in the past and they have not come true (yet).

The basic problem with MORT is we do not understand Reality we only have the capability of thinking about our representations of reality and we know that they can be wrong.

jim
jim
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 13, 2023 12:46 pm

Well no
I would argue that eternal death, life in heaven and reincarnation are all abstract representations about death and people choose the representation (belief) that that they find useful.

Some people believe in heaven and that can help them to do what they think is right.
Some people believe in reincarnation and that helps them handle life’s difficulties.
Some people think of themselves as hard headed realist with no time for wo, courageous enough to accept the reality of eternal death.

Rob, you don’t have a defective “denial gene” you just have different representations of reality and you doubt the accuracy of others representations.

jim
jim
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 13, 2023 1:41 pm

Rob
We are story telling chimps
We tell some freaking tall tales
And have some good ideas
but can’t always know which is which.

monk
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 13, 2023 9:26 pm

Ontological discussions annoy the fuck out of me because it often leads to lazy thinking. There is still a real world out there that we can understand perfectly well using logic and science. Just because we view reality through our senses doesn’t mean it isn’t real. Yes we frame our understandings through abstractions – but that doesn’t change the fact that some things are real/true, and some things are false. If a person disagrees that, then there is ZERO point arguing with them!!
What is astounding is that you can prove a lot of things are true – irrefutably – and yet so many idiots will still claim (until they are blue in the face) that the opposite is true. We have very good science that explains why humans will continue to believe things that are false – even when you’ve shown them good reasoning why it is false.
The way I see it, MORT is a hypothesis of another such explanation for why humans believe things that aren’t true. I.E., we are talking about a hypothesis for a real psychological/biological phenomenon that we could study to see if it is falsifiable.
This is NOT a post-modernist discussion of how do we know what we know. This is NOT an airy fairy discussion into the meaning of knowing. MORT is NOT a debate about people’s personal feelings towards the topic of denial.

monk
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 13, 2023 9:35 pm

Ontology is the philosophy of how we know what we know or how we catergorise things. Plato in his cave playing with shadow puppets or whatever LOL. You’ve heard the saying “don’t mistake the map for the territory”. Well when some philosophers get carried away, they’ll be telling you the map damn well mad the territory. hahaha OK bro

monk
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 13, 2023 9:41 pm

*Made the territory. But actually they would probably say something more like, “the map provided a frame of reference that brought the territory into existence.”

monk
Reply to  monk
March 13, 2023 9:32 pm

I forgot to add one thing. If MORT is true, it would be a precursor to culture, not an outcome of culture. I do think there is value in discussing how different cultures do denial. But if MORT is psychological/biological and developed in early humans, then it would be observable in all peoples. Cultural differences might increase/decrease the effect of MORT, but MORT would always be there

jim
jim
Reply to  monk
March 14, 2023 8:12 am

Of course materialist hate discussing ontology, they want to assume away basic problems.

You can’t prove Truth – that your idea(s) are an accurate representation of reality,
You can tell when your ideas are false and you can find situations where your ideas are more or less useful but Truth (Reality) is beyond our ability to perceive and understand.

As for MORT I find it unnecessary. You don’t need to have some denial gene
all you need is the ability to doubt the stories you are being told along with a preference for pleasant over unpleasant.

monk
Reply to  jim
March 14, 2023 12:00 pm

Jim if you don’t believe in true / false, why do you bother arguing anything at all?

monk
Reply to  jim
March 14, 2023 12:09 pm

Just to be clear, are these the points you are making:
1. It is possible there is a denial gene.
2. You don’t think it is likely that mind over reality theory is connected to the denial gene.
3. Or you don’t think Mind Over Reality is a valid theory in of itself?
4. If a denial gene does exist, humans can over come this by questioning themselves and the stories they are told.
5. The presence of lack of denial in certain cultures could be used to prove there is no denial gene, and that denial is a product of culture/stories.

jim
jim
Reply to  monk
March 14, 2023 12:39 pm

Well monk as i said, you can know when ideas are false, and you can learn what ideas are useful in which context, so there is a lot to discuss.

As far as a denial gene – i don’t think it is a useful idea, if you do please describe the causal mechanism for a slight change in the sequence of a biopolymer causing you to deny unpleasant realities.

Again, this MORT hypothesis is unnecessary, if you have the capability to doubt the accuracy of your beliefs and the stories told by others and you have a preference for pleasure over pain there is no need for a denial gene. Combine that with the very strong tendency to look to others for clues on how to behave, there is no mystery that needs to be solved. People are in denial about ecological overshoot because they doubt the story being told, don’t like the obvious consequences of ecological overshoot and they look at what others are doing and they see complacency.

monk
Reply to  jim
March 14, 2023 3:17 pm

Rob, please correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s just a hypothesis at this stage. Noone has done any research into look for this specific gene/s right? As to how it could evolve, Varki has described in some detail in this paper: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-25466-7_6

It is reasonable to suppose that fully understanding the death and mortality of other individuals is a prerequisite to fully understanding one’s own personal mortality. If so, the emergence of a full theory of mind would eventually result in full understanding of the death of another individual, i.e., the permanent extinction of another mind, not unlike oneself. This understanding should translate to stark realization of one’s own personal mortality. Severe death anxiety should affect the few individuals who develop this ability at any given time, and this may have sufficiently reduce their fitness to negate the possibility of passing on the genotype to offspring (Fig. 3).
Excessive reality denial and risk-taking should have been maladaptive each time that they first emerged in individuals of a species with advanced cognition. And we have just argued that although an extended theory of mind can have fitness value in the right circumstances (as it does in today’s humans), the initial negative impact of the resulting mortality salience should be maladaptive, because of the resulting mortality salience and death anxiety. But if both of these very rare maladaptations happened to evolve in the minds of the same individuals at the same time, they could combine to allow tolerance of death anxiety, and this unlikely combination could be genetically established in the progeny of these individuals (Fig. 4). In the more expanded view of this proposed “mind over reality transition” shown in Fig. 5, a species with a complex social organization, a long life, a preexisting maternal instinct, and helpless young could evolve (Froehle et al., 2019; Hrdy, 2009; Konner, 2010), such as occurs in some of the other mammals mentioned earlier. Such a species might also be more likely to develop some level of self-awareness and basic theory of mind, especially in the context of cooperative caring for helpless young (Hrdy, 2009).
In the absence of a full theory of mind, observing the death of another individual of the same species would not trigger full mortality salience and its negative consequences (Fig. 5). On the other hand, individuals who first develop a full theory of mind and observe the death of conspecific would then suffer from awareness of personal mortality, and the resulting psychological terror would result in a failure to establish the genotype in that lineage. If so, a highly unlikely one-time combination that includes reality denial of mortality salience would allow psychological tolerance, successful reproduction, and establishment of the benefits of extended theory of mind (Fig. 5). It is also noteworthy that the ability to hold false beliefs, self-deception, optimism, and confidence might support a successful mating strategy, especially for males. This suggestion is congruent with Trivers evolutionary theory of self-deception that includes denial of ongoing deception, self-inflation, ego-biased social theory, false narratives of intention, and a conscious mind that operates via denial and projection to create a self-serving world (Murphy, von Hippel, Dubbs, et al., 2015; Ramachandran, 1996; Trivers, 2000, 2011).
One can thus posit a hypothetical singular phasein human evolution, during which mortality salience and maladaptive death anxiety were triggered by acquiring extended theory of mind, but happened to be stabilized by simultaneous evolution of reality denial in the same minds. Returning to Table 1, and doing the thought experiment, it is noteworthy that the combined deletion of reality denial and extended theory of mind would blunt or eliminate many of the unusual cognitive features of humans. Thus, once this unusual combination was established in the lineage that gave rise to modern humans, it would have given such individuals a considerable advantage at the cognitive level.

jim
jim
Reply to  monk
March 16, 2023 9:04 am

Thanks monk for more details on MORT.

Let me paraphrase it in my own words:
If people really understood the existential dread of death they would be to depressed to have sex and the human race would die out.

lol the brain thinks it is in charge.

I am quite sure that people who believe that there is no life after death still have sex and have kids and are not totally depressed all the time.

Hell, the Stoics routinely imagine their death in order to actually live a life in the time they are given.

Charles
Reply to  jim
March 15, 2023 1:10 pm

Nicely said. This comment and the one below, where you remind us that:

You can’t prove Truth – that your idea(s) are an accurate representation of reality,
You can tell when your ideas are false and you can find situations where your ideas are more or less useful but Truth (Reality) is beyond our ability to perceive and understand.

Thank you.

Personally, I find the fact that we can’t fully comprehend reality harder to accept than death.
Just to get to the point where one understands there is more to reality than his particular belief of reality, is already pretty damn hard.
Then to accept one will never “get” reality, but can at best navigate from one limited representation to another (when it serves a purpose).
Then to be relieved to see reality does not cease to exist when all representations are cast away.

As long as one is embedded in a particular belief, there is undoubtedly a defence mechanism (denial?) to prevent the recognition that one is only dealing with a representation rather than the “actual reality”. It takes quite some courage to accept reality can’t be represented at all: there is suddenly no grip, no basis (the abyss). But the leap of faith is truly liberating.

Charles
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 15, 2023 5:15 pm

Don’t worry if you do not understand. At some point, you too will lose interest. You will then see what I mean.

Once you stop trying to understand, because you get to the point where you are utterly convinced that you don’t truly understand a thing and never will.
Then you truly live.
You begin to see again, all that you were missing: a baby smiling, a dog barking, the first tree flowers of spring, the ocean within an eye… Simple, yet incomprehensibly beautiful things.
Most things happen without us doing anything. Why worry? It is a feast.

Once I let go of trying to grasp the world in its entirety, I gained it.
Sorry, I don’t have a specific example to give: it’s daily. It’s all the same, but under a different light and that changes everything.

It will come to you some day. It can even be right now, cause it’s always there.
Sorry, I don’t have a better explanation. I just can’t express it. You will know. Don’t worry.

Charles
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 16, 2023 5:44 am

Yes. Exactly 🙂
The motorcycle is a great example. A great way to shut down the monologue.
Fortunately, we can also get to this clarity of being, even while the monologue runs in background. It is not necessary (and maybe not possible) to shut it down forever. I found, it suffices to acknowledge it gently and let it run his course. As long as we don’t believe we are it or immediately react to its injunctions.

I am grateful you could see what I was expressing. Yesterday, I was really not happy with my answer. So, in the meantime, I came up with a complementary explanation from a different angle.
I don’t know if it is necessary now, but, if you bear with me, here it is.

Once I saw the mental for what it is: a limited mechanical device repeating itself, then I stopped clinging onto it in hope of relief for the suffering it was itself generating.
Because it is fundamentally a compulsive parasitical movement, an addiction. It binds you in little loops of dependence of the form: if only CONDITION, then SOMETHING would be fine, at last.

To give some concrete examples:
* if only I were rich, I wouldn’t have to work
* if only I were powerful, I would straight this mess out
* if only I were good looking, the women would fall for me
* if only I would study more, I would understand everything
* if only I understood everything, I could save the world
* if only I buy this new car, my neighbours will admire me
* if only Russia would falter, we would remain the kings of the world
* if only all Jews were eliminated, the Aryan race would prevail 😮
* if only we would drive only electric, climate change would be solved
* if only everybody acknowledged MORT, we would avert collapse 😉

Something is, purposely implicit here. The complete pattern would rather look like:
1. belief: some representation of reality
2. identification: meaning of self in the representation
3. idea of a problem
4. idea of a solution
5. promise of relief
6. sets in some kind of reaction (lots of sweating)
7. go back to 3, rarely 2, even more rarely 1
8. acknowledge this program failed so many times, see the loop for what it is (a bondage, a veil)
9. leap of faith in the unknown (to step 0): recognize the limitations of the program and go on with life

And we are running around, following the loop of eternal misery. I call it the one-slot worry box (not 2, not 0, always exactly one worry at a time, all the time). How can such a simplistic device keeps us enthralled for so long?

Getting to the point where we put no more faith in the failed promises of this process, is like stopping continuously banging one’s head with a hammer. We won’t ever get to a reasonable answer and that’s a pretty reasonable answer.
(Aside: to me, “Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God” is Jesus’ way of putting the mental state back in place. Isn’t the devil the great deceiver?)

So now, I accept I can’t understand most of what’s going on, but it is still fine, peace sets in, life goes on. Life has this property that it doesn’t stop when we stop thinking about it. Funnily, even the mental activity doesn’t stop then, it is simply relegated to it’s rightful place: that of an entertaining, sometimes useful, most often broken automata (our personal ChatGPT 🙂

Mike Roberts
March 12, 2023 9:58 pm

I have no idea whether the critique of the Cochrane review on masks by Pueyo had any impact on this but a clarification has been published on the web page for the review:

“Many commentators have claimed that a recently-updated Cochrane Review shows that ‘masks don’t work’, which is an inaccurate and misleading interpretation.

“It would be accurate to say that the review examined whether interventions to promote mask wearing help to slow the spread of respiratory viruses, and that the results were inconclusive. Given the limitations in the primary evidence, the review is not able to address the question of whether mask-wearing itself reduces people’s risk of contracting or spreading respiratory viruses.

“The review authors are clear on the limitations in the abstract: ‘The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions.’ Adherence in this context refers to the number of people who actually wore the provided masks when encouraged to do so as part of the intervention. For example, in the most heavily-weighted trial of interventions to promote community mask wearing, 42.3% of people in the intervention arm wore masks compared to 13.3% of those in the control arm.

“The original Plain Language Summary for this review stated that ‘We are uncertain whether wearing masks or N95/P2 respirators helps to slow the spread of respiratory viruses based on the studies we assessed.’ This wording was open to misinterpretation, for which we apologize. While scientific evidence is never immune to misinterpretation, we take responsibility for not making the wording clearer from the outset. We are engaging with the review authors with the aim of updating the Plain Language Summary and abstract to make clear that the review looked at whether interventions to promote mask wearing help to slow the spread of respiratory viruses.”

monk
March 12, 2023 4:51 pm

Rob I found it so helpful when you talked about this diagram. That we humans can study all of our cognitive biases, except Denial of Denial.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias#/media/File:Cognitive_bias_codex_en.svg

MickN
MickN
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 12, 2023 1:21 am

Steady on with the engineering hubris Rob. I’m sure I don’t have to remind you of this but I will anyway.

Some great links been posted lately by you and others. Thanks

AJ
AJ
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 12, 2023 5:14 am

Spoken as a true EE. 😉

Just kidding.
AJ

Hamish McGregor
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 21, 2023 9:01 am

Rob, why do you think a bridge collapsing is more to do with “civil engineering” than (say) Structural Engineering? And are you implying that Material Science is (e.g.) superstition and faith based?

MickN is correct to request that you “steady on with the engineering hubris …”.

Do you also want to pooh-pooh some other (real?) engineering FUBARs?
Nuclear : Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima, et al.
Aero : Two Boeing Max nose dives. Concord’s vulnerable tanks, et al.
AeroSpace : The shuttle; Launching (O-Rings), Returning (foam/missing tiles), et al.
Software : Microsoft Exchange and generally anything Microsoft or Android.
Medical : Too long to list.

There is a strong argument that without engineering, science and technology our population would not have been able to explode and our current existential predicaments would have taken much longer to manifest – perhaps long enough to see the error of our ways and make course corrections.

Hamish McGregor
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 21, 2023 10:21 am

Yes, “many were caused by management overriding the … [engineers] …”

How many of those managers were also engineers that caved to pressure from the bean counters?

Could the engineers have done a better job of whistle blowing?

General Motors used cheap parts that caused ignition keys to fall out, leading to deaths. Are the engineers completely innocent?

I completely agree that the denial of treatments and vaccine issues are catastrophic and nothing to do with engineers.

Was the Deepwater Horizon rig disaster (Macondo Prospect) entirely due to management malfeasance – were some of those managers also engineers, or could some of the engineers have done more to prevent it?

The engineers (and managers et al) that designed and built the Drax power station in the UK had no idea that acid rain would destroy forests in Norway – does ignorance (across the board) get a pass because “integrity” and later on they corrected things using flue-gas desulfurization?

Peter
Peter
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 15, 2023 8:58 am

SVB fell because they were invested in low interest bonds whose value is now diluted by higher interest rates. Speculation two weeks ago was that the FED would raise rates another 1/2%, now speculation says 1/4% or 0%. Not raising rates could trigger inflation back up again and making more rate hikes necessary. Not a problem but a classic predicament.

Peter
Peter
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 28, 2023 7:06 am

Central banks set the prime lending rates, they base it on inflation and economic growth. When our central bank in Canada lowered the prime to zero people were getting 1.5% adjustable mortgages. Commercial banks then lend at prime plus.

Inflation usually starts from too much money in the system, except that the money is only credit. Thats the theory, however, higher energy costs impact inflation as well.

We have been through another oil price jump and now it’s in the red again. In 2008 oil went from $150/bbl down into the 30’s. This time we hit about $100/bbl, now back down around $70.

My take is we will see a rate pause this year, possibly lower rates going forward. Then inflation hits again, but harder, another series of rate hikes and a harder crash the next time.

Anonymous
Anonymous
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 11, 2023 7:01 pm

I have some, I’ll look tomorrow to see how much. Couple of months ago I bought a radiation dosimeter. I guess if I ever have to use it I just as soon be dead.;)
AJ

AJ
AJ
Reply to  Anonymous
March 12, 2023 7:45 am

I have 200 each of 65 mg of potassium iodide. The bottle says two a day for an adult for as long as you have a risk of radiation in the environment. In other words, it would probably mitigate your worst exposure if it’s a single incident where the exposure dissipates, but probably not help much in a nuclear winter- where we’re all be dead in time.
AJ

monk
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 20, 2023 1:19 pm

May not be relevant to you Rob, but it is considered best to give Potassium Iodide to children first because they are more at risk.

AJ
AJ
March 11, 2023 2:22 pm

Probably the best read on the Silicon Valley Bank fiasco is:
https://adamtooze.substack.com/p/chartbook-200-something-broke-the

Even more in depth is this link from within the above article:
https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/why-was-there-a-run-on-silicon-valley?utm_source=substack&utm_campaign=post_embed&utm_medium=web

Both of these writers know a lot more than me. It’s still up in the air as to whether this is Lehman or Bear Stearns. But at least according to Tooze, Asia is where the problems lie.

AJ

AJ
AJ
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 11, 2023 11:53 am

Yeah, I read Karl this morning too and have followed this for a few days on Zero Hedge and Wolf Street. Quite a few divergent opinions out there. Some think this is the “Lehman” moment when the system’s wheels start to fall off. Some, like Zero Hedge generally think this means that Powel will pivot and lower rates to save the other banks (they of course didn’t think Powel would raise rates and kill the everything bubble that has made all of us (substitute 0.1%) all so rich;)).
However, this might be the “Bear Stearns” moment and everyone (in power) breathes a sigh of relief and we all go back to faking money, GDP, inflation, growth (all things financial) until it all really blows up a few months later in a “Lehman” moment.
I’m really waiting for Mac10 to prognosticate – he’s more fun than all the rest.
AJ

Jef Jelten
Jef Jelten
March 10, 2023 4:10 pm

I believe that denial or as I call it willful ignorance is definitely a thing. There is no possible way anyone can claim that it is a genetic trait…thats just ignorant.

It is real and it is rampant but it is almost entirely an anglo western civ perspective. It also happens to be the #1 population on the planet that has been buried is massive lies from birth to the point that they are totally schizophrenic.

The current generation, the millennials and those younger have never known a world without massive lied and delusion. They have never known real news, real journalism, basic truths. They honestly and truly believe in the ever increasing magic of technology providing infinite resources and a endless future of growth. It isn’t denial, it is what they have been taught, programed to believe since birth.

There are countless examples of indigenous cultures thriving for millenia while facing all of the harsh cold truths of the natural planet

What is genetic is mans potential to misbehave, to be greedy, selfish, violent, just plain evil. We know this about ourselves. We have known it for more than 10,000 years and we have always made conscious effort to structure ourselves in such a way as to discourage that kind of behaviour, or at least to make certain we do not encourage it.

A small faction of humanity got the upperhand and have aggressively, violently, but covertly structured a system of control designed to bring out the worst in humanity and have successfully applied it to the world for the last 100+ years. They did it in the name of freedom, democracy, and most of all anti-communism, anti-socialism, in short anti-equality.

Their success has been largely due to their ability to control the narrative aka LIE! Just look at what is coming out with the twitter files although there is really nothing new there for those who pay attention.

This latest book gives some damning info if you can spot it in this interview;

https://newrepublic.com/article/170762/silicon-valley-destroying-world

Jef Jelten
Jef Jelten
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 10, 2023 6:22 pm

As I said denial is absolutely and obviously a thing and it is a thing worth sussing out so I would never want to shut down your blog.

I believe it is a demonstrably true fact that one can not deny something that they do not know.

Jef Jelten
Jef Jelten
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 11, 2023 7:48 am

“Denial or abnegation (German: Verleugnung, Verneinung) is a psychological defense mechanism postulated by psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud, in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence.” (Freud 1924/1961).

Calling denial genetic and the way that you choose to interpret that implies that humans have no control over it, that it is inevitable. Denial is no more inevitable that greed, Narcissism, lying, hating, and dozens more bad behaviors. Then there is all of the good behavior including courage which is the opposite of denial.

Again I agree that denial is happening and indeed is increasing as bad things are increasing but if you look you will see that courage is also increasing. I see it everywhere you seem to see denial everywhere, I see both as rational human behavior.

The bigger problem, the reason that “no one is doing anything” which isn’t completely true by the way, is that the global population, especially the global west, is and has been lied to for so long and so completely that they, the vast majority of the population simply do not have the proper information they need to make the right choices. So they are lied to and therefor ignorant and then we berate them for being ignorant. They are not ignorant, they didn’t choose to be ignorant, they don’t even know they are ignorant, so how can they then be in denial.

There are much bigger and more accurate reasons for inaction. In addition to ignorance there is the simple fact that …everyone has to go to work in the morning!

I believe that both you and Prof. Varki want to believe that denial is inevitable as a coping mechanism to deal with collapse. It is a way of stating that there is no alternative to collapse, which by the way is a huge and growing bad behavior used to absolve oneself of responsibility and action. There are a growing number of people selling the idea that this is just how it is, it was always going to be this way, there is nothing anyone could have done to change this outcome, etc. I say BS!

Read about Nicaragua after finally shaking off the shackles of empire. They are rated one of the happiest populations on the planet, their per capita income and carbon footprint are a tiny fraction of that of the global west.

I am not saying what is happening in the global south or eurasia is good. Their exponential growth that is really taking off spells disaster for the planet but again it is because they are not allowed to have the proper information to do otherwise. Why do you think that is?

monk
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 12, 2023 4:58 pm

Rob I found it so helpful when you talked about this diagram. That we humans can study all of our cognitive biases, except Denial of Denial. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias#/media/File:Cognitive_bias_codex_en.svg

Jef Jelten
Jef Jelten
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 12, 2023 5:04 pm

All of your deductions which supposedly ONLY lead to denial being genetic, a gene function of the brain, can easily be explained by lies. Big lies applied on a constant basis, insinuating its self into every facet of society for millenia.

Yours and Varkis arguments boil down to the classic economist argument of “all things being equal” and “assuming everyone fully understands the whole picture”, neither of which exists.

Religion is a LIE…all of them. The #1 driver of behavior, which denial is along with all other human behavior, is a constant narrative fully saturated with lies. No one can possibly come to any conclusions about human behavior in this environment, which by the way has been going on since the beginning of humanity.

You want to blame something blame the tiny, tiny % of the population that perpetuates massive society wide LIES and take them out on a seal hunt in the Arctic.

Look I know I have zero chance of getting through to you on this issue. I can’t get hardly anyone to acknowledge the depth and effect of generations of deep lies. Almost no one understands how all pervasive the lies and outright evil have defined life on the planet. Most DENY that whole concept.
That does not mean that denial is the issue, its the LIES.

Virtually all social critique and analysis completely ignores the effect of generations of lies piled on civil society from K thru ….hospice. Don’t you think that that would tend to affect people?

Again I will emphasise my main argument against Genetic Denial as an issue. The majority of the population of western civ, (which is the demographic that this argument is focused on because most other cultures embrace death) simply do not have the information so can not possibily be accused of denial. There are plenty of people who do have the information and choose to deny it but they are a tiny minority.

Jef Jelten
Jef Jelten
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 12, 2023 6:18 pm

I am saying all religions are lies. I am also saying that many cultures through out the ages embrace death not because of the promise of life after but simply as acknowledging the fact that there is birth, life, and death. Duh! There is also ONLY male and female. Duh! The RoW laughs at the west for proposing otherwise.

Sure there are dozens of effed up religions but that is hardly proof of genetic denial.

If religion is your only parameter for proof or disproof of MORT then I give up.

I agree we are talking past each other as you have not addressed any of the points of my discussion.

“…denial of unpleasant realities created our species…” Massive claim without any scientific, genetic proof. It would be like stating that greed created our species and explains many unique characteristics of humans, or avaris, or cheating, or stealing, or selfishness, or any one of a dozen human behaviors.

Most of what denial is is lack of courage and I agree it is rampant but hardly a trait that furthered the evolution of humans.

Jef Jelten
Jef Jelten
Reply to  Jef Jelten
March 12, 2023 8:35 pm

Rob – I never said I believe that there are religions that do not believe in life after death. What I have always said is there are countless indigenous cultures who do not believe their is life after death. They do not consider their beliefs as “religion” that is a very alien concept to most of the history of humans.

Again you dance around my logical, scientific data, physical reality based arguments and insist that it just is…

Your last statement below is just pitiful. It boils down to “I know you are but what am I”.

Blaming it all on genetic causes allows you to not have to address the issue. When has anything ever been addressed and ‘fixed” with political will. Stop trying to rationalise your own personal inclination to sink into denial. Man up, put down your purse and grow a pair.

Jef Jelten
Jef Jelten
Reply to  Jef Jelten
March 12, 2023 5:56 pm

You want me to be scientific, I have seen the book…where is the denial gene? Has it been sequenced?

I communicated with Jay also and found him to be highly intelligent but completely stuck in his own theory, not unlike some folks here.

I seem to be more “scientific” that most in this discussion. I look at the data, what has happened and is happening in the real physical world and it is LIES up one side and down the other. Prove me wrong.

If you have followed and or researched the concept of “manufactured consent” which is real and all pervasive, you would understand the concept of manufactured denial. Any and all human behavior is elicited. TPTB understands this implicitly and uses it to their benefit. If you don;t understand this “you know nothing John Snow”.

Ian Graham
Reply to  Jef Jelten
March 24, 2023 6:52 am

IMO calling people down, ‘pitiful’, ignorant, incapable of simple understanding is the fallacy of ad hominem attacks and may explain why Jef has not been able to convince reasoning people to his view.
I have not seen a definition of terms in this most enduring thread: genetic for instance. If it is a genetic trait of a species, is it immutable, like opposing thumb or eyes on the front? or more like handedness or giftedness? Is someone’s capacity as a musical genius or engineering virtuoso also genetic, but which may go undetected and undeveloped. What about epigenetic, aka environmental influences. That famous woman biologist married to Carl Sagan who developed the theory of epigenetics showed that simple bacteria mutated in their environment to be able to survive. Means to me that genetics are not immutable and that there is a spectrum of traits we call genetic, some unchangeable, some less so.
Lies are a form of denial, deceitfulness is a tactic for survival, growth, power, control. How often am I deceiving myself, for better or worse? Self-deception is being in error about what will make me happy, ie is more stuff the answer? How about infinite growth on a finite planet? Indeed that one makes me think some things can be a deception in one age and not in another, practically speaking.
I’ve never gone looking or come across a study that says all religions are inherently in denial about death. I have been reading Marcus Aurelius (Meditations, 170AD) recently though, and he is clear that death is nothing to fret about. I understand that is a stoic philosophy. granted we could quibble when a religion is/is not a philosophy. But I have read in the vedic and yogic literature ie early hindu, or even mystical hinduism, (I differentiate between the everyday garden variety of religion and the esoteric wisdom teachings that are more difficult to grasp). Death is certainly not denied or feared or resisted in the esoteric teachings i have read, like the yoga sutras of Patanjili or the Gita. But fear of death is described there as one of the obstacles to higher consciousness.
Another term: consciousness, barely able to be parameterized. But we know from historical accounts that great souls have existed and still exist. Not just in India and Arabia. Even the Catholic church has/had it’s bona fide saints. Think George Fox and John Woolman for examples of protestant great souls. Great souls to me demonstrate higher consciousness, and that too is a spectrum. Ken Wilber did an admirable job of trying to map that spectrum.
Finally and carrying on from 5, maybe deceitfulness and denial of death are not binary, maybe they are analog across a spectrum so it’s not possible to argue that the tendency to deceive or deny is hard wired genetically after all.

thanks for this thread, Rob and Jef, I treasure the integrity of this blog to persistently seek truth.

Ian Graham
Reply to  Ian Graham
March 24, 2023 4:43 pm

I had 6 points numbered in post to make it easier to follow, that formatting got erased somehow. here is:
1. IMO calling people down

I have not seen a definition
Lies are a form of denial, deceitfulness is a tactic for survival
I’ve never gone looking or come across a study that says all religions are inherently in denial about death.
Another term: consciousness, barely able to be parameterized.
Finally and carrying on from 5, maybe deceitfulness and denial of death are not binary,

thanks for this thread, Rob and Jeb, I treasure the integrity of this blog to persistently seek truth.

Perran
Perran
March 10, 2023 1:28 pm

Well I’m looking forward to watching the series. I might even subscribe to Netflix for a few days to watch it if I have to.

Shawn
Shawn
March 10, 2023 7:57 am

Some years ago, one of the doomer blogs (that guy in Alaska?) ran a survey, asking readers to indicate which of the Meyers Briggs personality categories they fell into. From my memory, something like 70-80% were either INTP or INTJ (The Architects, Logicians, Thinkers. Names do not refer to occupations). Also, something like 80+% were male.

From experience, my guess is that there is also a mostly male audience for your web blog, and some the other “doomer” blogs that some of us read.

Totally anecdotal, but the women in my life really do not like hearing about existential threats, particularly if there is no solution on offer. (You can talk about climate change only if you can offer “green” energy as a solution!) But in daily life these women gladly embrace the emotional pain of other individual human beings, and they will act on that at a personal level to help fellow human beings, or through charity to other human beings they do not know.

Thought: Maybe, I think, “empathy” can be the wrong emotion for driving the making/taking of hard decisions about life, especially between societal “choices” where there are no solutions only choices. The response to that might be that we must extend our circle of empathy and trust beyond ourselves, family, and close friends, to the wider human and non-human world, and make decisions from that context. A few people seem to be able to expand their awareness in this way. But most cannot, or do not. I doubt humans have the cognitive capacity to do so.

Well, I have offered nothing useful here in terms of solutions, just a rejoinder to some of the ideas in the post above. Apologies.

(P.S. I don’t think putting only INTPs or INTJs in charge would solve anything. But interesting question as to whether these personality types actually have less empathy than others, enabling their more logical thinking style.)

MickN
MickN
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 10, 2023 10:50 am

Shawn – I think it was Tom Murphy at Do the Math.
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2015/04/programmed-to-ignore/#more-1516

Interesting article (as are all of Toms) and comments.

Shawn
Shawn
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 11, 2023 8:25 am

The Myers Briggs tests/personality types are poo-pahed by some and do read at first a bit like an astrology chart. Weird however, that there is such a strong correlation with some personality types and readers of certain blogs. Maybe the deeper correlation is around intelligence levels as hinted at in the Doomstead Diner thread linked in the comment below. (Thanks.)

So what if everybody was more intelligent, would this help solve our problems, or make it easier to take decisions on hard choices? Say for example if the entire population was moved one standard deviation higher on intelligence tests.

Some people have asked that question in other contexts. The responses are usually vociferous attack for even raising the question, citing eugenics, etc. Given the past history of nationalism, racism, etc. such gut reactions to the question are probably warranted.

My gut answer to the question is no, having a more intelligent population (as defined by IQ or similar tests) will not solve problems of resource consumption, depletion, and waste products. But it might give rise to a group of people who think they have the right to make those decisions, in what THEY regard as in the best interests. Sci Fi stuff.

IF we can keep the lights on industrial civilization another 20 or 30 years, we could be headed toward indirectly answering this question anyway. We could see the widespread introduction of artificial intelligence, machine-brain interfaces, a full detailing of the human genome, and genetic editing becoming technically practical and widespread. Etc.

The AI chat machines are biased right now, but maybe one day those machines give very clear unambiguous answers to questions about the human future.

Anonymous
Anonymous
Reply to  Shawn
March 24, 2023 5:24 am

it’s not intelligence ie cleverness that counts, it’s awareness ie consciousness that counts imo. that’s the journey we’re on. the evolution of consciousness and we’ve run out of time.

Des Carne
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 13, 2023 11:05 am

The attraction of the Briggs-Meyer 16 personality profiles scheme is, aside from its Jungian roots, it offers one comparison with famous people of each personality type, but that’s as far as it goes. Kind of narcissistic and a bit like reading tarot or tea-leaves. “I’m like Einstein, or Benjamin Franklin!”, and so on. I find the Big-5 Personality test (of which much maligned and theatrical Jordan Peterson is a developer) far, far more useful – it is based in the real (developing) science of psychometrics, and measures the 5 major psychological personality traits (and their subtraits) on a scale of 100, and the finer points of interaction of each of the 5 major traits – Openness, Conscientiousness, Extraversion, Agreeableness and Neuroticism – OCEAN). I did it and I learnt stuff about myself I had no inkling of, even after registering as an INFJ and earlier as a INTJ several times on the Briggs-Meyer test (studying life stage theory and life-long learning styles helps explain why ones personality profile changes over time). Both tests tell me I’ve always had my head in the clouds, (busily clearing a path through the cloud of unknowing), as every practical woman in my life repeatedly reproved me of – I thought I was doing a good job and that like me it was vital they know – but universal gender differences may be helpful here, when it comes to considering salvation by female leadership – from recall these difference are totally absent from the Briggs-Meyer analysis, other than nostrums like “women are more empathetic” (true to some extent). The only significant differences (on average) between men and women are in traits Agreeableness (men are on average 20% more disagreeable than women), and Neuroticism – sensitivity to negative emotion (women are on average 20% higher in neuroticism than men. In all other traits, and subtraits, the average differences are less than 5% (no significant difference at a population level).

Jackson
Jackson
Reply to  Shawn
March 10, 2023 4:20 pm

Shawn, you’re thinking of Doomstead Diner:

https://doomsteaddinerbeta.wordpress.com/2017/05/26/collapse-personality-profiles-results/

Top results: INTJ, Type 5, IQ 130 or over, male, etc.

monk
Reply to  Jackson
March 12, 2023 2:53 pm

I’m an INTF. I find this personality thing very interesting. We did an informal survey on the Peak Oil Facebook group, and most people were INTJ. Considering how small a % of total population these personality types are (2.1%), it is an interesting signal that they are over-represented in the peak oil/climate change/end of civ discussion.

I is for Introversion.
N is for Intuition – poorly named – but stands for “big picture thinking”. Enjoying ideas and concepts. Rather than accepting reality is what you see or what you are told.
T is for Thinking – logical reasoning to decide rather than basing on feelings. Linear thought patterning.
J is for Judging – values order, structure, wants things settled.

Rob, would be interesting for you to test yourself. You may be an INTJ as well 😉

monk
Reply to  monk
March 12, 2023 2:53 pm

Sorry Rob typo, I meant you may be an INTJ

monk
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 12, 2023 4:41 pm

Your personality type is meant to be fixed, so would indicate some genetic component. But personality testing isn’t exactly good science 🙂 I’m going to mull on this

monk
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 12, 2023 4:42 pm

Sounds like you must be well organised at home Rob. I love a good bit of organising

monk
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 12, 2023 4:43 pm

LOL I am an INFJ – got to have some warm fuzzies in there

descarneDes Carne
March 10, 2023 5:37 am

Varki’s politics suggest a defect in his theory. The idea that women would run the work is naive, especially considering some of the examples he cites – Jacinda Ardern of New Zealand as a prime example. I can’t think of a single female political leader who is ipso facto better than a male – the curren Scandinavian female leader, like Ardern, is part of the woke squad pushing the Global fascist transition proposed, activated, by the World Economic Forum. He says men are the source of the trouble – he mentions Putin as a prime example, totally ignoring the role of the Biden admin, “intelligence agencies and NATO powers’ role in provoking the Ukraine war. Failure to look at the political roles of troublesome males, including of those whose roles are covert and deceptive, especially when so organised, makes this analysis incomplete.

monk
Reply to  descarneDes Carne
March 12, 2023 11:41 am

Jacinda played on the shtick of ‘women are empathetic” while being the least empathetic lead NZ has had in a long time

Mike Roberts
Reply to  monk
March 12, 2023 8:49 pm

I’m not a Jacinda fan but I’m astounded at the way she seems to have become the sole focus of all the ire directed at politicians. I don’t think she’s the least empathetic leader we’ve had in a long time but she is typical of that trait in all so-called leaders.

monk
Reply to  Mike Roberts
March 12, 2023 10:19 pm

Worst in my lifetime then, I’ll grant you. Empathy is demonstrated through action, not platitudes

Replenish
Replenish
Reply to  Mike Roberts
March 27, 2023 5:50 pm

Jacinda admitted to willingly creating a 2-tier society with the vaccine mandates regardless of public health benefit with a sneer on her face.. ruined peoples lives and livelihoods based on a series of calculated lies and misinformation techniques and supported behavior levers and censorship to push dangerous drugs like the rest of the Western leaders. She deserves all the ire she receives. Mike, from the beginning on OFW you consistently erred on the side of the experts and stuck with the prevailing narratives on the safety of the vaccines. You drew ire when you commented that there was nothing wrong with getting vaccinated to participate in normal life. You come across as understated and thoughtful on these important matters but I believe you are deliberately obtuse. I don’t trust you.

Mike Roberts
Reply to  Replenish
March 27, 2023 10:09 pm

Very little of that is an accurate characterisation of my activity on OFW. If I followed the official narrative in some aspects, I didn’t in others, because I looked at what science was available at the time. Certainly my position on the vaccines has changed, as the data came in. I never blindly follow the official narrative, whatever you may think. But it’s sad that you continue to push a false lie about my position on getting vaccinated to participate in normal life. Your characterisation of that, in itself, is cherry picked and I explained how that comment came about but most of those who frequent the comments section are only interested in trying to ridicule anyone who doesn’t follow along. There is almost no interest in calm discussion there.

It’s sad that you chose to come here just to insult me but it would certainly be unsurprising from most OFW commenters.

monk
Reply to  Mike Roberts
March 28, 2023 1:09 pm

Mike, I too got vaccinated because I thought it was the best decision at the time. I was very wary of conspiracy theories re vaccines. Many of the OFW commenters are so rude, that’s why I barely ever comment there

Hamish McGregor
Reply to  Replenish
March 28, 2023 12:09 pm

Your post started off so well, then descended into character assassination. You provided no links to support your accusations. There are millions of people that ‘believed’ the excrement promulgated by governments and main-stream-media and later tempered their views (e.g. Dr John Campbell on YouTube.com).

Why do you feel compelled to share your ‘beliefs’ and details of who you don’t trust?

AJ
AJ
March 10, 2023 5:18 am

I felt sorry for Rachel throughout that interview. She was articulate and sadly Dr. Varki was not. Rachel with all her effort was trying to move the interview along rather than having “dead air”. Dr. Varki seemed depressed to some extent, as he said. Maybe that’s just a fact of getting old? OR not having any positive responses (in the larger scientific culture) to MORT/denial over many years? (we don’t count as there appear to be too few of us who understand the theory). I do wish people who are aware of MORT/denial would also push population reduction. I also am not sure that just putting women in power changes anything. As you all enumerated above we have had plenty of bad female leaders.
What the MORT/denial theory needs is an articulate cultural icon with a megaphone, i.e. a demagogue? Probably is too late for anything to stop collapse and save some remnant of civilization.
AJ

monk
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
March 12, 2023 11:39 am

I think it’s helpful to temper depressive realism with a sense of humour. This is something Tim Watkins seems to have figured out. I hope Dr Varki feels he can get through this time and keep going. He’s got an important story to tell

Lathechuck
Lathechuck
March 10, 2023 4:06 am

Recent news from China, as well as Europe and North America, says that birth rates are collapsing far below the replacement rate. This is always presented as a challenge and/or disaster, but it’s exactly what we need if we are to trend toward a steady-state world economy with a substantially smaller population. I hope that it’s sign that the People are out in front of their Leaders, taking the matter of resource depletion and pollution control into their own hands in the one most effective way. It may lead to some awkward moments as we adjust, but I’d choose it over trench warfare and/or pandemic disease any time.

Mike Roberts
Reply to  Lathechuck
March 12, 2023 8:45 pm

We can never trend to or get to a steady state economy, if MORT is correct. It would required an awareness of reality.

Steven B Kurtz
Steven B Kurtz
March 10, 2023 3:35 am

Good that this is being rebroadcast by George Tsakraklides. It is a good synopsis.

marromai
marromai
March 10, 2023 12:56 am

I do not believe that women in our current social system can make the drastic changes, that would be needed to avert a collapse. The women who are intelligent enough to understand our predicament will not give themselves up as front figures to be mentioned in the same breath as our current supreme league of incompetence (Merkel, Von der Leyen, Baerbock, Ardern, Truss,…).

It is the cultural cycle, which brought us were we are and we are doomed to bring it to an end, which we are currently witnessing live. This decline is inherent in every cultural cycle, we can’t avert it – it was already so with the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Mayans…. What goes up, must come down. Unfortunately, this time we messed up the whole planet with our civilizational achievements.

After that, there is a good chance that people will be organized into small tribal-like units led by women. The men can then go back to foraging in groups, while the women keep the clan going…