By Charles: Doomers’ Visions of the Future

Today’s guest post by Charles is an excellent primer on the diversity of beliefs held by many of the best minds that think about our overshoot predicament. Charles wisely reminds us that no one knows what the future will bring.

Charles recounts his journey of increasing awareness that led to depression and despair, followed by an awakening of acceptance and constructive action, that has provided him with some peace and happiness.

It’s funny how I (we?) construct incorrect mental images of people we meet on the web. I imagined Charles to be an elderly retired reclusive spiritual philosopher, not a middle-aged top-tier software developer with a deep scholarly interest in human overshoot, and an impressive sustainable food growing sideline.

Charles concludes by asking readers to share their own visions of the future. If you have something to say that deserves more than a comment, please contact me about posting a guest essay.

P.S. I believe Charles now holds the doomosphere record for the most links in a single essay.

The idea for this post originates from an exchange with fellow doomer davelysak who states:

I foresee, based on various portents, an extreme human population crash in the relatively (10 – 50 years? Maybe sooner?) near future.

and later adds the precision that

I’ll be surprised if there are more than 2 billion people alive on earth in 20 years.

This made me reflect about my own anticipation for the future, even more crucially, the way I communicate it to others. Or rather as a matter of fact, don’t so much anymore. Like Cassandra, I have come to understand that I find myself psychologically between a rock and a hard place: I foresee a future of extreme hardships which I do not particularly desire. Worst, I have long felt compelled to share my projections, driven by the naive impulse to initiate collective preemptive action. However, torn apart between the pride of intellectual rigor, my ideal not to harm others and increasingly aggressive or irrational reception of the message, I have slowly learned to repress myself, not to voice my concerns and conform to the group. After all, even Cassandra brought ill fate to herself. (It turns out my strategy is no solution, as the rage is turned inside and builds up, but that could be a story for another day.)

Hopefully, our host, Rob provides a safe haven to any doomer who wishes to bravely face the crude, unadulterated nature of our predicament.

As doomers, we share a myth, the myth of collapse. In a nutshell, it unfolds, as I understand it, as follows:

  • The old age of material opulence is about to end, as current trends can not continue for long.
  • A world-scale crisis has been brewing for quite some time; it is about to burst.
  • After it eventually recedes, once balance is somewhat restored, a new normalcy, a new age will be revealed (that part of the myth is optional).

Funnily, if we refer to Kurt Vonnegut’s shapes of stories it falls somewhere between the shapes Old Testament and New Testament.

And many false prophets shall rise

Lurking for a quarter of a century in the doomosphere has taught me visions of the future, even among doomers, may vary tremendously. The stroll through the exhibit of studies can go on for hours, ranging from loss of material affluence (Richard Duncan’s Olduvai theory) to complete life wipe-out (James Hansen’s Venus Syndrome), with population collapse (Club of Rome’s limits to growth) and near term human extinction as middle-grounds (I guess).

The fall is seen as either rapid and brutal as in Hugo Bardi’s Seneca cliff, or manageable as in John Michael Greer’s catabolic collapse. Even our preferences and values differ: some like Jack Alpert’s sustainable modern civilization of 70 million wish to preserve the current living arrangements trading population level, on the contrary, primitivists such as Derrick Jensen do not equate humans with Homo Industrialis and impatiently wait for the machine to (be) stop(ped). There are even some fringe organizations advocating voluntary human extinction and euthanasia, while most would just like to manage degrowth. (To be fair, the church of euthanasia’s ultimate goal is species awareness.)

Model after study after analysis after opinion piece paint different aspects and outcomes of the fall. Some radically scarier than others.

My personal journey through doom

What then do we really expect, fear and hope? At first I had planned to cold-heartedly present the scenarios I found most probable and then invite you to share your own prospects. But, given the heavy emotional load that the subject carries, I somewhat changed my mind: after all we are discussing the possibility of not only material losses but the widespread increase in suffering, deaths, extinction of the living world. At the very least, our cultural identity is at stake. So I’d like to add a personal twist and narrate how my understanding of the future evolved during my personal journey.

I was born in 1978 in the then extremely affluent and sophisticated country of France (WesternCiv). I was inculcated with the idealism of my time and place which originates from the Age of Enlightenment: triumph of reason, humanism, universalism, materialism, progress and atheism. Even though I had a really hard time learning the fundamental necessary last piece allowing anyone to function in an ideal world (hypocrisy), it was indeed the best of all possible worlds.

At 6, I was profoundly marked by Chernobyl. I remember the haunting masks of the liquidators, courageously shoveling the entrails of the angry machine, promised a certain death as a reward for saving our, my lives; and the helicopters hauling sand; and then the oddly reassuring claims from my country statesmen about the spread of the cloud. A first encounter with official doublespeak?

As a city boy living on the 6th floor of a modern building, I grew up a book-worm. Books offered countless windows into exciting realms out of the deprived environment of a sanitized flat. In particular, I vividly remember feeling a strong emotional bond with Hans Christian Andersen’s fairy tale Five Peas from a Pod. Was it a hint, a reverberation from a destined future of my deep yet unacknowledged nature? More were to follow. At a relatively young age, I watched the extremely violent Japanese TV series Fist of the North Star (right-minded censorship hadn’t caught up yet). A brilliant blend between the universes of Mad Max and Bruce Lee, it depicts a brutal post-apocalyptic world set in barren landscapes and desolated ruins. This time around the call of agonizing farmer Smith to plant rice seeds for tomorrow particularly resonated (captions are read from right to left).

I later read Asimov’s Foundation series and Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha.

I was faintly aware of the environmental crisis, in particular climate change as a life changing but slow process with only distant impacts. Shortly before the new millennium I stumbled upon information which blew my comfortable world view. It was Colin Campbell explaining depletion and predicting peak oil.

At that point, I was convinced global population would have to come down during my lifetime and challenging times were ahead. I thought it would still be manageable, spanning through the coming century from the current population of 6 billion back to pre-industrial levels between roughly 1 and 2 billion (respective estimates of the population around 1800 and 1930).

I was a rational realist, not buying into modern human exceptionalism which asserts we can achieve higher agriculture yields than our predecessors with fewer resources on an environmentally degraded planet. Even though the greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function in a Tragedy of the Commons, I had faith humanity would soon change its ways: it was just a matter of spreading the crucial piece of information about resource depletion widely enough. After all, there were already some men of good will, such as Jason Bradford, taking action. In South Korea, I had just met the love of my life, some years later we married. We were fruitful. Our daughter Rachel, as an homage to Rachel Carson, was born in 2007. Determined to carry my load in curbing population growth, I convinced my wife to stop multiplying at one.

I was to be punched in the face again. It was 2012. A somewhat egocentric professor was sternly announcing near term human extinction (this is most probably the presentation by Guy McPherson I watched at that time). The future was sealed. I was now standing on the edge of a steep final cliff. For me, it was the start of a very dark period. You know that kind of aftertaste which lingers a while after watching a documentary such as the Island of Flowers.

Except everyday, as a background of everything else. I couldn’t help but feel hopeless for my then 5 years old daughter. The key notions were feedback loops (for instance methane according to sad Nathalia Shakhova) and tipping points.

Evidence accumulated from every side. State of the ocean: apocalyptical; ice: disappearing; trees: under assault; soils: eroding. It was suddenly the 6th (or was it already the 7th) mass extinction. I quit flying (for what that is worth, there surely is, unfortunately, a substitution of demand paradox similar to Jevons?).

Having thoroughly assimilated this new data, two years later, I wrote a dense blog entry to get it off my chest. I reviewed my script: I was now expecting 1 billion humans by 2040 and extinction at the end of the century. News still got worse. Moving goalposts, shifting baselines and worse than predicted by the model were the expressions of the days.

Homo Sapiens’ response was to pretend all was safe. The manufacture of consent, merchants of doubts had it easy with a general public all too eager to keep on basking in comforting denial.

Kevin Anderson exposed the half-truths of even a supposedly rigorous official body, the IPCC, about non-existing negative emissions technologies included in their models. The remaining carbon budget was already getting slim and the task to turn this ship around incommensurable.

I took Wing Chun classes (even though I was not sparring with these ladies) and practiced like an addict would inject heroin.

Primitivism (Derrick Jensen, Deep Green Resistance, Daniel Quinn’s Ishmael) convinced me our fate was sealed a long time ago, when we forked into the original sin. Attempts to heal (Carolyn Baker, Joanna Macy, Charles Eisenstein) back into the lost Eden did not cheer me up. Resistance seemed futile (Underminers, Sea Shepherd). Everything was a lie, a fraud, and the living world was collapsing.

I felt increasingly ashamed and guilty for being part of this holocaust of a new kind (let’s not mince words, this is un-Denial after all 😉 ). Only this depressed collapsitarian on his boulder brightened me up, at least for his accent and hat. I considered taking ‘shrooms to communicate with the spirit of the Earth.

Meanwhile, unbeknownst to me, an ordinary miracle was happening on my very own balcony. For no real reason, I had installed a large clay pot and was everyday discarding some food waste. It was fun watching soil building. 7 years later I harvested 3 peaches on a small tree that had grown on its own out of a minimal daily routine. It died the next year, but had shown me a way forward.

I went back to my bookcase to dust off Fukuoka’s One-Straw Revolution. I had read it at 20, but as a conformist computer scientist did not know how to respond to the strong appeal it had on me already at that time. I bought all translated Fukuoka’s books and Larry Korn’s excellent clarifications (for a western mind that is).

Haunted by images from The Burmese Harp, I stopped Wing Chun one year just before covid struck. I lived this surreal period as a blue pill/red pill moment: do we still put our faith into an authoritative centralized science, absolved from any personal implication and effort, or do we fend for ourselves and look for other ways. Although, it was a slow grind, a long arm wrestling, I felt the price of resistance turned out surprisingly not to be very high: give up on restaurants and movies mostly. I have to admit I am proud I was able to withstand (especially for my daughter’s sake) peer pressure and the manipulative wannabee bully Emmanuel Macron we have as president, a corporate valet, if anything.

I enrolled in the local community gardens and bought a small piece of land in the country side to plant a resilient edible forest garden. I started at ground zero: the previous rectilinear poplar plantation was clear cut just before the sale (in modern mindset no profit is too small).

I don’t really worry about the future anymore. After all, if we let her be, life unveils tremendous amounts of strength and resilience. Humanity does not deserve only contempt. I’ve found many people to admire and approaches to follow.

Masanobu Fukuoka’s natural farming:

Ernst Götsch’s syntropic agriculture:

Joseph Lofthouse’s landrace gardening:

I learned acceptance of what I can not control: other people’s behavior, preferences and own internal limitations. I learned the importance of doing small things at my pace, my scale, everyday. I unlearned duality (that’s another story).

Current thoughts about the future

In the span of 25 years, my outlook on the future changed three times. Today, I am not even sure were we really stand. In Vonnegut typology, rather than the classical doomer’s narration, I now find myself in the “Which way is up” shape of story. In this section I will outline my current personal view and preferred outcome.

Although, nothing can completely be excluded, I don’t believe the planet will either go Venus nor abiotic. I do not believe the human species will be extinct by the end of the century. I do not believe we will escape to the stars onboard metallic ships. We may nuke ourselves out of existence, but it is in nobody’s interest. We may experience multiple severe nuclear power plant accidents. But maybe scarcity of nuclear fuel will compel us to progressively shut them down before. In the longer term, the human species could even survive the ongoing extinction event.

As depicted by Joseph Tainter for prior civilizations, ours chose a similar path of increased complexity. Following this strategy, it has cornered itself: in my country almost every service has been converted into an “app” or is in the process of doing so. Thus creating the biggest single point of failure: all this convenience relies on the continued operation of the grid, data centers, the network, chips, long supply chain, rare minerals, etc.

To me, a Seneca cliff scenario is unavoidable and guarantees rapid material loss. We will lose our technological gadgets and crutches. Our machines will stop, thirsty. Pollution will be reduced and assimilated by the organic world. We won’t do much about it other than pretend.

Will there be a population crash or a graceful decline? Will the planet temperature stabilize at a livable level? What will the ultimate stable population be? I don’t know.

Our current ways impact the web of life brutally. I will really be surprised if the planet sustains more than 2 billion people for long. Biomass tonnage of mammals gives an idea of the scales at play:

I expect a crash in the following 2 to 3 decades. Eyeballing the world population age pyramid, if we had to achieve this four-fold reduction tomorrow in a “fair” way, then all males above 30 years of age should go soylent green (females are given 5 more years). For long term survival wouldn’t this be preferable to a slow long agony? This won’t be said out-loud. So I won’t go further on that path.

A call to inaction

Fortunately, there could still be room left to maneuver. Fuel could be rationed for food usages. The population could spread out, reducing the need for transportation and providing labor for agriculture. Degraded land could be regenerated, deserts converted to forests, cereal fields hybridized into agroforestry, or converted to orchards or edible forests as once was the case in Europe.

There are some success stories (propaganda of our times, maybe) all around the world.

China:

Saudi Arabia:

India:

Africa:

New Zealand:

USA:

Agriculture from the green revolution is productive (given external fossil fuels), but soulless, dumb and destructive: the philosophy at work in every step (delineating plots, tilling, applying pesticides and herbicides, irrigating) is that of control, rendering the soil inert, blocking the natural flow of life. The idea, disconnected from reality, is to make agri-culture an industrial process so that outputs can be maximized following a known function of inputs.

Life is not inert, its potential surpasses anything we can fathom. A miracle akin to the one that happened on my balcony could be made possible on the large scale. We don’t (and I believe never will) understand the whole system.

The theory of the biotic pump gives us a glimpse into the full extent of its processes at the planetary level:

I cannot recommend this presentation by Anastassia M. Makarieva enough:

Accompanying slides:

Large forests work like a planetary air conditioning system: pumping water from the ocean and circulating it across the continent, cooling temperatures, releasing heat above the layer of greenhouse gases directly into space.

Soil could be restored while at the same time cooling the climate.

I accept this may well be sophisticated denial on my side. But why not try?

Conclusion

I agree with Guy McPherson when he states everybody in the industrialized world was born into captivity. But that’s primarily a mental prison we can break out of. So far this culture has lived by the motto divide and conquer, waging war on every side, engrossed in the illusion of control. The fire has grown to the point it has now become a matter of life and death.

Course must be changed. It is not even that hard. All it requires is some generosity: stop the aggression towards the planetary organism which shelters us all, let forests grow absolutely everywhere. Feed ourselves, heal and replenish life at the same time. Tend to be taken care of.

This, to me, is the concrete meaning of love: the cycle of co-dependence illustrated by Yggdrasil, the tree of life surrounded by the eternal snake Ouroboros.

In any case, this is the path I have chosen for myself, regardless of the circumstances, and my proposition for mutually assured survival.

Your turn

Thank you for reading. At least, I hope this post was somewhat entertaining. Please let me know what your own visions, hopes and propositions for the future are. I love to be surprised.

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Charles
Charles
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
September 1, 2023 11:55 pm

It’s crazy, isn’t it? I thought “truth” would slowly be recognized as time went by.

But it seems the opposite is happening. I can’t bring this topic up at work. “Conspiracy theory”, “Russian propaganda”, smirks are the usual answers. Maybe I am the one living in fantasy-land and in need to grow up? I recognize the world is complex and this may not be as clear-cut.
Oh so I wished we just had untarnished data published in mainstream media. This could be so simple a case.
Instead, we are just waiting for the damage to pile up to the point every body freaks out (again) and another round of vaccine is rolled out?

I apologize for expressing fear and anger in this post. This is not really constructive. It’s hard to go against the collectively built reality. It’s a relief to have people with integrity, like you Rob (and hopefully others too) who cold-bloodedly strive for facts. It’s not easy to discern lies from reality. Everybody has his fantasies.

monk
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
September 6, 2023 4:25 pm

They just try and pretend there is no debate

AJ
AJ
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
September 1, 2023 3:04 pm

Loved this talk by Dr. McCullough. Very aware of how corrupt medicine/pharma/institutional science/government are. BUT I can’t say a word of this to anyone I know because they are all in denial and will call me a crazy conspiracy theorist.
AJ

Charles
Charles
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
September 2, 2023 12:05 am

Yes, this makes me angry, too.
Up till now, the French of today proved to be more obedient than the mythicized French of the revolution.
I don’t if that is fortunate or not. There was the Terror back then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror. Although it could be argued that current times (especially during “emergencies”, like covid) are times of Terror too.

Charles
Charles
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
September 1, 2023 11:37 pm

I too believe the lifting of the financial veil to be soon.

I may well be wrong. We have (collectively that is) been so skillful at lying and pretending to postpone the realisation of the inevitable. But, I can feel the wheels of the cart up-hill are starting their motion. It’s slow at first and will accelerate frighteningly then.

I have read from Arnaud Desjardins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnaud_Desjardins, sorry I lost the exact quote) that “Reality never hurts, it is the lifting of the illusion which is painful”.

AJ
AJ
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 31, 2023 6:01 am

Loved Bill’s discourse. Yeah, Rachel has some hopium mixed with a little denial about the uselessness of almost anything we as individuals can do. Bill’s talk on population’s need to come down along with a drastic decrease in energy/material use AND those points having absolutely no traction with the prevailing power structure (and human nature) means collapse is our destiny. I think Rachel gets this but denial kicks in.
AJ

Mike Roberts
Reply to  AJ
September 1, 2023 6:30 pm

Yeah, Rachel seems to desperately want to believe that humans can voluntarily change their collective nature. Her comment about road building being stopped in Wales was a bit misleading as not all projects have been shelved and it isn’t a hard and fast policy for the future, even if some of the actions appear to be based on a concern for the climate. As Bill hinted, governments say a lot of things about climate but it’s what they do that counts.

Good suggesting by Bill about getting Rex Wyler on as a guest. From Nate Hagens’ round table, Rex is even more aware that humans are a species and act like one.

AJ
AJ
August 30, 2023 1:30 pm

Back to my greatest short term worry. Nuclear war started by the fools in D.C.
Andrei’s recent post after he came back from a vacation in Russia is scary again. It is interesting that he is a native Russian who chose 20+ years ago to live in Washinton state. He is one of the credible voices on all things Russian.
The second video link in his blog post is precious. It was made just prior to Russia’s entry into the Donbass in February 2022. Col. Wilkerson’s take on the U.S. and how we have screwed everything up prior to the Ukraine war is interesting. We are probably as close as every to Nuclear Winter and the end of everything. Someday VERY soon I fear we will no longer be in contact with each other. I will miss you all!!
https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2023/08/how-to-find-out.html

AJ

monk
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 31, 2023 5:37 pm

As much as I don’t like Dmitry Orlov (because of his sexism and racism), he has made some interesting points over the years. Like Russians report the harvest each year as national news. Do I have any idea what the national harvest looks like in New Zealand, no! Russians also have a living memory experience of a collapse – he argues it gives them a more realistic take on things having experienced the hardship. Just a couple of random ideas

dirt15
dirt15
Reply to  monk
August 31, 2023 9:51 pm

I’m sure you’re right. People who have experienced trauma/collapse/disadvantage etc are far more likely to accept that modernity can’t and won’t continue – as Kira said when her friend was down and out he could accept it, but once he was well to do, he couldn’t.

I read somewhere years ago that if you were to go into a prison and explain collapse theory to the inmates, 90% of whom come from disadvantaged backgrounds, most would get it – as do children. It’s not rocket science, just out accursed genes.

Diana
Diana
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
September 3, 2023 8:47 am

A late reply, but at least on the economic front, the US at any rate does not yet appear to reflect reality with jobs, spending, wages and savings all rising.

https://wolfstreet.com/2023/08/31/our-drunken-sailors-are-drinking-directly-from-the-punch-bowl-powell-did-you-see-that/

https://wolfstreet.com/2023/09/01/labor-market-sorts-out-the-distortions-from-the-pandemic-labor-force-spikes-wage-pressures-stuck-at-high-levels/

Perhaps this is the last drunken splurge before PO and depletion…..

AJ
AJ
August 29, 2023 12:51 pm

Just perusing all the blogs I read. . .
Tom Murphy has a great post out today.
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2023/08/learning-to-walk-again/#more-3456

Personally I don’t know if there is somewhere out of the water for any of us. Is there dry land left? What is left of the experiment of modernity after it goes away?

I’m not sure if life without the scientific knowledge we have gained is worth continuing? Are homo sapiens without awareness of the vastness of the universe,
it’s beginning and what makes it all happen (evolution, the law of physics, etc.) worth anything? Not sure they are.
AJ

monk
Reply to  AJ
August 30, 2023 3:11 am

The thought that humans could conquer space or indeed time-space seems to relieve death anxiety for some of the smart people

Mike Roberts
Reply to  AJ
August 30, 2023 3:31 am

Yes, a good blog. I’ve also come to the conclusion that modernity can’t be saved. As to whether that removes the worth of living, I think all life evolved without thinking of the worth of living so we will go on, if we survive the bottleneck. We’d probably be too busy thinking about how to survive to worry about the worth of doing so.

AJ
AJ
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 29, 2023 12:32 pm

I plan on using my horse paste (ivermectin) twice a year as a prophylactic (there is research showing that bi-yearly ivermectin shows lower cancer rates. And then use it again if I happen to get a covid variant. Never taking any “flu” shot of any kind again, maybe not any vaccinations – other than boosters for tetanus, etc.
AJ

nikoB
nikoB
Reply to  AJ
August 29, 2023 3:45 pm

make sure you only get the tetanus one as the stuff containing pertusis is very bad for you.
I personally am not getting any more vaccines after having researched things much further. The risk is too high.

monk
Reply to  nikoB
August 31, 2023 5:40 pm

What would you recommend for children / babies? I notice in the USA babies are recommended more vaccines than in NZ. It must be hard for skeptical parents to know what to do…

gwb
gwb
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 31, 2023 8:57 am

The fourth major crime is the official coverup and snowjob to portray SARS-CoV-2 as a “natural” occurrence.

monk
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 31, 2023 5:45 pm

You know this comment describes me pretty well. It is interesting working for a large manpower company. We have had more deaths in the company in the couple of years than normal. At the moment, bereavement leave is noticeably spiking. I had an appointment with someone recently who said a a few of her clients had recently died – it was noticeably unusual for her. It’s hard to know is this a signal, or am I just being hyper sensitive?? I don’t really know what to think. Everyone in my family is vaccinated, including myself, and we all seem to be fine – healthy as ever.

AJ
AJ
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 28, 2023 3:26 am

The problem is the complete corruption of all institutions by money. Perhaps that is just the end result of a capitalist system? Money is power, security and prestige and corrupts all science it touches.
AJ

monk
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 29, 2023 1:09 am

that is crazy!

monk
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 27, 2023 10:50 pm

Mines are evil 🙁

el mar
el mar
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 27, 2023 1:18 am
el mar
el mar
Reply to  el mar
August 27, 2023 1:20 am

“What are we to do?” persisted the Chief Conductor.
“Nothing. God let us fall. And now we’ll come upon him.”

el mar
el mar
Reply to  el mar
August 27, 2023 1:45 am

“Nothing,” came the merciless reply.

Merciless, yet not without a certain ghostly cheerfulness. Now, for the first time, his glasses were gone and his eyes were wide open. Greedily he sucked in the abyss through those wide-open eyes. Glass and metal splinters from the shattered control panel now studded his body. And still he refused to tear his thirsting eyes from the deadly spectacle below. As the first crack widened in the window beneath them, a current of air whistled into the cabin. It seized his two wads of cotton wool and swept them upward like arrows into the corridor shaft overhead. He watched them briefly and spoke once more.

“Nothing. God let us fall. And now we’ll come upon him.”

Gaia gardener
Gaia gardener
August 25, 2023 12:46 am

Wow Rob, that’s a lot of catch-up homework you’ve just handed to us but this student is an eager beaver and very grateful for all the new fodder, it might take a few days to chew through though.

Regarding choosing a pseudonym instead of commenting using my legal name, at first it was because I was totally new to this and any public space but I did think long and hard about taking on Gaia gardener because that’s really what I’d like to be known as.

Interestingly, perhaps for those who have a curiosity for Chinese, part of my given Chinese name is Ga which means family or home, and that is what Gaia is for us. In traditional Chinese culture, the father chooses the name for the baby and my father who just immigrated to the States, also decided on my Western name as an afterthought because he was sure I was going to be born a boy (apparently he didn’t quite understand that a 50/50 chance is far from any guarantee!) and would have been named Tony. Apparently he didn’t even have a girl’s name in mind. I’m not sure what my mother’s opinion on this was. Funnily enough, the name he gave me turned out to be one that is equally used as a male name and in fact, the spelling he chose is the usual male version–it’s Terry. I don’t think he realised that but he obviously wanted me to be a son!

There’s a bit more to the name tale. When I was old enough to be interested in what my name meant (and it’s on the birth certificate as Terry, not a nickname for Theresa), I discovered that it meant Reaper or Harvester, so in an almost prescient way my father did choose wisely after all. All my life I have been passionate about growing plants and tending the earth, and it is still my deepest heart’s desire, now especially food plants, until the time for me to return to the soil.

Here I am very happy to continue as Gaia but I am also pleased that you know I’m called Terry. I’m sure there will be another opportunity for a surname reveal but you’ve had enough of my babble for today! I did say that even as Anon you would know I wrote it!

Perran
Perran
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 25, 2023 2:32 pm

Welcome back Rob. Glad you had a nice holiday.

monk
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 27, 2023 10:55 pm

This was a very good talk and one I enjoyed

el mar
el mar
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 25, 2023 3:33 am

My son is flying from Germany to Vancouver Island today for a semester abroad.
Hopefully his money will be enough (-:

Elmar Vogt
Elmar Vogt
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 26, 2023 4:41 am

Thank you, Rob, that is very kind!

Mike Roberts
August 24, 2023 3:50 pm

Thanks, Rob. But the login dialog that pops up when I reply has the stay logged in option which I always select, though it makes no difference. As I say, wordpress thinks I’m already logged in but still asks me to log in when I press the reply button after composing a comment. Oddly enough, even after I logged out, the comment box thinks I’m logged in. I’m going to delete all of the cookies for WordPress and Un-denial, to see if that helps. Here goes.

Mike Roberts
Reply to  Mike Roberts
August 24, 2023 3:52 pm

Woo-hoo! That worked. I ensured I was logged out on WordPress, then deleted all cookies, then logged back in on un-denial and put up the comment. It went straight through without having to log in again. Fingers crossed that that is the end of the woes. Thanks for the hints.

Gaia
Gaia
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 23, 2023 10:03 pm

Welcome back, Rob! What a paragon of virtue you are! So happy to know you’ve had a wonderful time and came back so invigorated. You probably look and feel 5 years younger at least! I think you should take to the woods at least once a month even for just a couple days away.

It’s almost too cruel to start back on the doom parade after that respite for body and mind, please take a few days to settle back into things.

We have missed you for this time but can wait a bit longer!

Gaia
Gaia
Reply to  Gaia
August 23, 2023 10:09 pm

Hi Rob,

It’s Gaia here who tried to welcome you back on behalf of all of us but did something change with this WordPress platform because it wouldn’t let me reply under Gaia gardener, now I am Anonymous, the most ubiquitous contributor of them all!

Now it tells me I can log in to leave a reply (optional) I never had to log in before and I don’t do Facebook or WordPress.

I don’t really mind being Anon for a while, you can all probably tell it’s me anyway from my loquaciousness.

Gaia gardener
Gaia gardener
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 24, 2023 3:49 am

Hi Rob,

Thanks for retroactively unmasking my Anon to my still masked moniker!

I think I cottoned onto the new format now, we’ll see how this one posts.

I am interested to know you’re reading Kim Stanley Robinson, have you read other books by him? He is a new author to me and I was recommended his The Years of Rice and Salt which is about an alternate history if 99% of Europe’s population perished with the Black Death. It’s in the queue to be read but even though it’s high fantasy and probably an excellent escape read I am not quite sure more doom and gloom is what I need at the moment! I am getting the picture quite nicely as it is! Your manifesto and the longest overshoot sentence (remember you chided me for my run-on sentences and paragraphs!) were what I cut my doomsphere teeth on, good to have another look, and unfortunately, there’s nothing to change or add because we’re still barrelling down the same path. And thank you for introducing me to Panopticon, it’s my next daily check-in after your blog. It was all the climate news of late, especially the sea temperature readings and extant ice situation that really got me thinking our time is even more compressed than we thought.

Still, every day is a wonder and ours to live as fully as we choose. I am really glad you’ve been able to do what you love most several times this summer and hope that you will find more chances to be immersed in nature as the weather starts to cool. When you are amongst the trees and rocks and rivers you are truly declaring that you are an Earthling and honouring your being part of the biosphere. This is our privilege of bearing witness to what is unfolding and partake in both the joy and sorrows because that is our due.

Namaste, friend.

CampbellS
August 23, 2023 1:13 pm

Steve Bull who writes well about overshoot and collapse has put together a collection of writings and presentations on our predicament from people he respects. I am pleased to see Rob’s Un-Denial Manifesto included along with articles from the likes of Bill Rees and Alice Friedemann.

https://olduvai.ca/?page_id=65433

Rob your manifesto and What would a wise society do? pages are my favourite and the ones I’ve shared in my circles most often. I wonder if you make any changes or additions to the Wise society post now given it’s a few years since you wrote it? Personally I think all the actions remain wise and relevant.

Cheers and I hope your camping trip was a memorable one.

Mike Roberts
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 23, 2023 7:55 pm

That “wise” commentary seems great … if some kind of modern society is retrievable. I can’t see how that is possible. Wouldn’t a wise society realise that any society even vaguely resembling the one we have is not sustainable? Wouldn’t a wise society figure out was is possible and sustainable, then try to move to that? Population needs to decline, certainly, but unsustainable behaviour also needs to go. After years of thinking about this, I still can’t see how that is possible without a primitive existence.

[Gosh, the comment facility seems to have changed. This may be the first cleanly processed comment I’ve left in years. Pressing Reply now.]

Mike Roberts
Reply to  Mike Roberts
August 23, 2023 7:57 pm

Damn. No. Even though I was informed that I was logged in, I was still asked to log in after pressing Reply. Oh well. Back to Reader.

Mike Roberts
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 24, 2023 3:57 am

I haven’t had many issues other than having to log in every time I press the Reply button after composing the comment, even though the comment box claims I’m logged in. Occasionally, something else has gone wrong but not consistently. I’m on Windows, using Firefox, have cookies enabled and with no odd browser settings. I do use a VPN but had the same problem before I started using it. I guess the IP might change every time I connect to the VPN but this happens multiple times. No frequent cookie cleaning.

Charles
Charles
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 24, 2023 1:53 pm

Welcome back Rob,
Just a thought, I’ll try to express clearly.
So, we got denial of reality to balance existential anxiety stemming from our ability to build models of the world in our minds. But this combination has resulted in an imbalance with planetary equilibrium. Now we get a mass extinction.
Aren’t they only 4 possible outcomes (mixes are possible):
– the species disappears, and its capacity for fantasy with it, the planet recovers,
– the environment evolves around this new species and constrains it so that new equilibrium are regained, maybe the capacity for fantasy propagates to other species,
– partly under new evolutionary constrains (but maybe not only), the species matures and somehow reins itself in while driving planetary recovery,
– life sustaining equilibrium diverges and the planet dies.
I’d like to be play 3.

Charles
Charles
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 26, 2023 1:25 am

Thank you for clarifying to me the notion that existential dread requires an extended theory of mind and not just the ability to build models. It is rather tricky. Let me rephrase to see if I got it right this time:
– many species have the ability to build models of the world in their minds,
– minds in the human species got to the point where they could model the minds hidden behind the surface of other persons,
– from that came the realisation to the mind modelling, that the mind being modelled had similar properties,
– since death is witnessed for other persons, the mind is able to infer its own mortality,
– which creates anxiety, because the mind understand its mortal nature,
– denial is a protection mechanism which appeared simultaneously in order to alleviate the downside of knowing one’s own death,
– the concurrent evolution of the two traits makes it an extremely rare occurrence of evolution,
– denial is generalized to any kind of unpleasant realities,
– hence, the imbalance.

What I don’t understand is that pigs are aware they are going to die when being sent to the slaughterhouse. So why don’t they similarly suffer from existential dread? Is it because their minds are only able to fear in the imminence of death, but not during most of their existence? Or maybe, they too are subject to lesser forms of denial?
Also, why should it be necessary for a mind to be able to finely model another mind in order to understand it is of the same mortal nature? Does it have to be that sophisticated? Don’t all social animals (dolphins, wolves) at least understand the ones they are interacting with are of similar kind than themselves? Don’t many animals (dogs for instance) feel the loss of another being.
Maybe this can be explained by the fact that (background, constant) existential fear requires to reach some kind of threshold in the brain? (Isn’t this just a bias related to the way we study nature, a form of self-reinforcing human exceptionalism?)

Wouldn’t it also be possible that existential fear is not required to give rise to this situation at all? Access to denial on its own could confer a species a short time advantage over other species: individuals are able to see and understand the havoc they create when wiping out competition (it requires some kind of blindness to raze a forest and build a road, or exterminate a pack of dolphins…). A faustian bargain, if any and a somewhat grimmer theory 🙁
Would it be possible that the rise of denial is not such a rare event, but rather that it doesn’t leave traces that can easily be observed by scientists? After all there are many things we can’t easily know from the past, as they simply disappear: internal mind mechanisms could be such a thing if it results in behaviour well tuned to the environment. Also since denial on its own, carries fatal downsides, how long should a species acquiring it survive so that we could acknowledge its previous existence?

Sorry, I am rambling about things which are way out of my league…

I am unsure it is unlikely for denial to spread to other species. Evolution from scratch was a rare event, but propagation may not be so much. The story of orangutan Chantek is a curious one (https://www.quora.com/Can-animals-have-an-existential-crisis).

Yes, I can imagine environmental pressure that would make our behaviour to change. But not necessarily eradicate denial from our mind. And I even think there are historical precedents. I see the rise and fall of empires as a kind of oscillating signal of increased amplitude. At one point, the strategy which consists in drawing down stocks (be it oil, trees, fishes, soils, captured slaves, trust in fiat currency…) as fast as possible to wipe out competition to the detriment of the ecosystem is not cost effective any more.
The pressure results from the fact the species reaches the physical boundaries of the whole planet. At this point, alternative strategies (which basically protect the living assets) fare better. We are already there. To give an extreme example: buying a forest to raze it down, sell the wood and convert the land to agriculture, then exhausting the land to desert only makes sense in a globalized settings as long as there are other stocks to plunder elsewhere to ensure economic value and continuation of the practice. From the desert, any regenerative technique will make more economic sense than leaving the land to its natural process (be it slowly recovering or trapped in the desert phase). There are other reasons which shift the optimal economic point towards more ecologically sound practices: lesser availability of oil, lesser availability of metal, marginal land which prevents the use of machinery, local human resistance, low value of what is left to plunder…
An historical example may be Tokugawa Japan discussed in Jared Diamond. Not necessarily a pleasant society to our modern eyes, but a relatively sustainable one, by necessity.

To go beyond existential dread, the mind could just recognize the map is not the territory. And that the notion of “mind”, or “I” (and consequently “mortality”) is a blurry approximation of reality at best, if not yet another delusion. We are too enthralled into our models and forget they are not the world (wouldn’t it take a mind the size of the universe to truly understand the universe). Once this is accepted, exit constant anxiety.
Or we can build other models, still enough consistent with reality to be of practical use, where the mind identifies with other things, such as “life”, “the whole planet”, “the universe”, “nothingness”, “consciousness”, rather than “my car”, “my manly destructive power”, “my bank asset”, “my power status”, “our progress”, “our supremacy”…
At this point, we got the software, so a genetic evolution may not even be necessary, just a cultural evolution.
This will happen, once the external constraints sufficiently favour those that do. It can be gradual, but can not occur before there are places where it makes sense from a competitive point of view (MPP, I would say). Given inertia of the system, I believe this ensures some level of collapse first.

To me, scenario 4 seems unlikely. Life is tough. This may be denial from me, but, I would give scenario 1, a relatively low probability. The human species is quite versatile. Unless there is a complete shift in the way the planet functions. Even in this case, there could still be pockets of habitability. (Tongue in cheek : I always had a part of me think Elon Musk was investigating technology to live on Mars, not to be used over there, but rather for the not so distant future Earth. The ultimate advanced version of the rich guy bunker). A mix between scenario 2 and 3 seems the most plausible to me (with more of 2 at first and 3 longer term).

Anonymous
Anonymous
August 18, 2023 1:02 pm

New paper by Will Reese called ” The Human Ecology of Overshoot: Why a Major ‘Population Correction’ Is Inevitable”. Probably not big news to people here but it’s still great.

https://www.mdpi.com/2673-4060/4/3/32

Gaia gardener
Gaia gardener
Reply to  Anonymous
August 19, 2023 4:02 am

Thank you so much Anon for sharing that link. That paper said everything there is to say (except I think Rob would add here that MORT should have been invoked) most cogently. Dr Rees laid out all the evidence and presented an airtight argument and indictment of our self-induced fate, to be enacted in full in due course. I am getting to the stage of acceptance where I almost can feel a sense of relief and consolation that the verdict is so conclusive by any and all measures of scrutiny so I can actually move on with what I can do, in the time I have remaining, including squeezing joy and gratitude from every day.

Wishing you and your family peace and comfort to see you through.

Namaste.

Mike Roberts
Reply to  Anonymous
August 19, 2023 7:04 pm

Very good. Only a couple of quibbles. I don’t know if I read it wrongly, but a surprising opening by Bill Rees, especially after that recent round table with Nate Hagens, Rex Wyler, et al. “Homo sapiens has evolved to reproduce exponentially, expand geographically, and consume all available resources.” No species evolves to do any of those things, though any of those things may be a consequence of the abilities they evolved. As discussed on that round table, humans are a species. There is no goal of evolution, it’s just what happens.

That opening is surprising considering that, a little later, he goes on to say:

… three innate abilities/predispositions that humans share with all other species. Unless constrained by negative feedback, populations of H. sapiens (1) are capable of exponential (geometric) growth, (2) tend to consume all available resources …, and (3) will expand to occupy all accessible suitable habitats.

This is further, properly, reinforced by

The evidence is compelling that human exceptionalism is a deeply-flawed construct—a grand cultural illusion—that has led MTI societies into a potentially fatal ecological trap. While culture contributes unique dimensions to humanity’s evolutionary trajectory, this does not exempt humans from the same fundamental principles governing the evolution of non-human lifeforms.

In terms of population, he doesn’t even hint at reducing birth rate but frequently mentions negative feedbacks which tend to limit a species’ population, which is what I think is the likely response of nature to overpopulation. The death rate will increase to rein in population numbers.

In the introduction, he implies that it’s possible for a humans “to override innate human behaviours,” but that is as close as he gets to adding the usual dose of hopium.

Prateek Karnadhar
August 17, 2023 3:58 am

I want to express my deep appreciation for sharing your profound insights and perspective. Your thoughts resonate deeply, and it’s refreshing to see someone addressing the mental captivity that often constrains us in the industrialized world. Your call for breaking free from the illusion of control and division is incredibly relevant, especially as we face urgent challenges like the growing environmental crisis.

Your vision of shifting course towards a more harmonious relationship with the planet is both inspiring and practical. The idea of fostering generosity towards our environment and allowing nature to flourish resonates with the ancient wisdom of interconnectedness. Your emphasis on co-dependence and nurturing life in all its forms is a powerful testament to the true essence of love.

It’s heartening to read about the path you’ve chosen for yourself, one that prioritizes the well-being of our planet and its inhabitants. Your proposition for mutually assured survival is a profound shift in mindset that could potentially pave the way for a more sustainable and harmonious future.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, for inviting us to join in this important dialogue, and for encouraging us to envision a brighter tomorrow. Your words have certainly left a positive impact and sparked contemplation about our own visions, hopes, and contributions to the world. Keep embracing this journey of transformation, and may your dedication inspire more people to take meaningful steps towards positive change.

Charles
Charles
Reply to  Prateek Karnadhar
August 24, 2023 12:51 pm

Thank you for your appreciation. I feel honoured.
Note that I have no illusion we live difficult times: we may also have to revere the gods of destruction (it may be a necessary step before renewal, purification and freedom from old ossified systems)

For me, breaking free from the modern world mental captivity (without falling into another type) took time. I hope it goes faster for the next generation. Accelerating circumstances will maybe do the trick. I myself have seen with my own eyes, during the covid episode, that apathetically and blindly listening to authority brings no good. We must get our spiritual cores back. That which make us firmly alive and not just cogs in the machine. Now that I got to feel what’s right, I have no choice, it’s simple. Before that I was numb, lost in the mental labyrinth of endless rationalization and argumentation, prey to the false promises of the system, without real purpose, unable to see the numerous rooms for possibilities to break free.

One reason I appreciate Rob’s blog, aside from the well-versed and civil commentators, is that by addressing denial, it is making the link between inner brain mechanisms, beliefs, individual behaviours, and the resulting collective impacts on the world.
In my case in particular, I have discovered at least three distinct mental stances (I apologize to some for using, yet again poetic religious language to explain this, it could totally be described more programmatically. The translation into scientific language is left as an exercise to these readers ;):
– modern myth of rationality/consumer mindset: set a goal according to some idea of what is right/desirable, apply scientifically proven recipes and expect to get there/be rewarded/be satisfied
– Bhagavad Gita privilege of action without any entitlement for the result (Chapter 2, Verse 47)
– Biblical faith (labeled fatalism by the believers of rationality) trust the higher power will provide (Matthew 6:25-33), as long as we seek righteousness (that’s where resides all the complication, at least for the mind).

I recognize the tree by its fruit: following the first mindset was hell for me. Either I would achieve my goal, but not really be satisfied for long. (A new desire sets in. Worse, I was partly running after manufactured desires which were not mine) Or I would fail and feel bound to try harder. The net result is a life of labour and constant worry for the future. (In a way fascination with collapse can turn that way too)
These days I navigate from mindset 2 to 3.

I’d like to end with a quote from chapter “Simply Serve Nature and All Is Well” of Masanobu Fukuoka’s book “The One Straw Revolution” : “The world exists in such a way that if people will set aside their human will and be guided instead by nature there is no reason to expect to starve. ” (https://archive.org/details/The-One-Straw-Revolution/page/n97/mode/2up)
That is my belief and increasingly my experience.

Hamish McGregor
Reply to  Prateek Karnadhar
August 26, 2023 5:28 pm

I am unusual because sometimes I don’t just read a post looking for the (often obvious) intended message. With Rob and occasionally others I will sometimes see completely unnecessary anthropomorphizing – usually I can resist the urge to post my jaded and cynical screed.

Looking at the post above – I see sentence, paragraph, vocabulary, grammar and message that all look “too clean”. So I pasted a copy into https://copyleaks.com

The results : “AI content detected”. 95% certainty.

No doubt, someone somewhere got a little Dupers-Delight. I hope they choke to death.

Hamish McGregor
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 26, 2023 6:08 pm

Strictly speaking its not just animals “To ascribe human characteristics to things not human”.
Here are a couple of yours from above.
“evolution discovered denial”
“the goal of the universe”
Typically it is not important, since there is little (if any) detraction from the message and often it can indeed help convey the message.

The duping above irked me. We live in a profoundly sick society. Phising / Vishing / Duping / Conning / et al.

Hamish McGregor
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 26, 2023 7:35 pm

By getting through, it can serve as an example to you, Charles, Monk and others – that deception is everywhere and utterly convincing. A shorter post would have fooled me. The gushing was excessive in both duration and amplitude.

Anything more would have been “I want to have your babies”.

Charles
Charles
Reply to  Hamish McGregor
August 27, 2023 12:50 am

You are right. When I first read it, I thought it was an advertisement. Also, it was the first time for me seeing this poster. But then, I thought the text comment was legitimate since it was referencing my initial post in a logical, structured and gradual way. I was duped. But it is sad wasting energy interacting with machines. To me, comments on this site have value, as long as they propagate viewpoints from human to human.
Thank you very much for spotting this and telling. It helps me be more careful. Although, it’s incredible what AI can do. And the only efficient response, might be to stop network interactions.
I wonder what the purpose of this kind of automatic comments and cost/benefit ratio is.

Hamish McGregor
Reply to  Charles
August 27, 2023 1:45 am

Frankly, the level of (available) sophistication is now terrifying. Someone could phone a loved-one and record it. A long enough recording can be used to train a computer system to mimic the voice. Add a little social engineering (or Facebook) to determine when the loved-one is away from home (preferably on vacation) and then the “help me, I’ve been arrested / been in an accident / etc.” phone calls to mother / father / husband / wife / grand parents start.

Some people will see the dupe, some will not. The podcast Darknet Diaries has some free episodes that are both entertaining and informative – I particularly liked the mother that helped her son ‘penetration test’ a prison. She was retired, white and female and had a background in catering. She posed as a kitchen / food storage inspector, walked right in and duped everyone.

EP 67: The Big House
https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/67/

I consider myself an expert in computing and cyber security – the need for due diligence constantly goes up, the ability to do it goes down.

I equate privacy with security, so everything from Michael Bazzell (Intel Techniques / Extreme Privacy) is good. He also has podcasts.

https://inteltechniques.com/podcast.html

Joseph Tainter’s – The Collapse of Complex Societies, is here.

Hamish McGregor
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
August 27, 2023 10:04 am

I use Telegram on a rooted Android, but don’t like that the phone number is the ‘price’ of admission. It was the ease of setting up automation that tipped the balance for me. Signal is equally good.

AJ
AJ
August 14, 2023 2:47 am

Wow, it sure is quiet here without Rob.
Lonely too.
AJ

monk
Reply to  AJ
August 14, 2023 8:57 pm

Here’s a random thing for you, I find both Nates make excellent background noise while I’m working (The Great Simplification and Canadian Prepper).

Diana
Diana
Reply to  monk
August 19, 2023 7:27 pm

I’m sure there are people here who follow Keith, the Canadian engineer with his permaculture forest. His videos are spot on – concise, no holds barred.

He’s also done a more detailed/elaborate one on collapse but I find the one above more concise for some reason

monk
Reply to  Diana
August 20, 2023 1:34 pm

awesome thanks for the recommendation. I haven’t heard of him

Charles
Charles
Reply to  Diana
September 2, 2023 4:11 am

Thank you. That was good.
(A bit of a late answer, because I didn’t have time to check it out before).