By Gaia Gardener: On Our Hall of Denial Mirrors

Today we have another guest post by a member of the un-Denial community, Gaia Gardener, who posted these thoughts on denial as a comment. I thought they were interesting enough to warrant promoting them to a more visible post.

Hello friends, thank you for a very interesting discussion about the realities of denial and how we humans seem to be able to manipulate all perceptions to fit our chosen narrative, whether or not we are consciously aware of our programmed beliefs however they were initialised and ingrained.

I am wondering if we can look at another subject, removed from overshoot, in which denial plays a big role in our actions/inactions so we can step back and dissect out a bit more how denial originates and becomes intrenched without us even realising our immersion in it, just like we in the small minority see happening to the masses and even polymaths in regards to overshoot denial.

The topic I think can fit the bill is the question of the ethics of eating animals, namely farmed animals which we consume in the billions every year. I won’t cover using animals for our labour and experimentation as the ethics of these actions can be construed to be justified in benefitting humankind which the majority of human beings would be in favour of. But the eating of animals in the modern world is not only unnecessary (and we can be spared the example of Inuits or other very minority population cultures who rely solely on animal products for sustenance, we do not have their situation in the least) but in fact there is convincing evidence that it is harmful to both our physical bodies and the planet, but for the sake of this argument, one need not consider either of those reasons to engage in a discussion of why we cannot eat animals nor their products if we believe we have a moral obligation to another sentient being. Let’s face it–we eat meat because we were brought up to do so and it tastes good (to most human taste buds) and it’s readily available without much effort on our part. However, the fact that animals suffer solely for our pleasure, tradition, and convenience is not enough moral ground to do so, for one can easily see how this disconnect can apply to any sentient being, including other humans, which is so obviously not an ethical choice. And yet, we are in complete denial that it is okay to eat chicken, cow, and pig but outrageously wrong to eat dog, cat, or horse. It is fine for us to imprison a member of a food species in the most horrendous conditions but we can be charged with abusing and neglecting other species we call our domestic companions. We can kill a food species animal way before their natural life span in a most horrific manner (everyone knows a slaughterhouse isn’t a happy place) so we can buy our sanitized plastic-wrapped packages of pork, beef, and healthy white meat chicken, but if we organise a dog fight and enjoy it, that is disgusting and shameful. You’re right, it’s not about education (most of us know that a live being had to be killed to get meat on the plate), or even more extreme forms of presenting the facts (how many of us would volunteer to witness what happens in a slaughterhouse, or even more tellingly, choose that as our job?). Yes, we have been lied to about happy free-range chickens or happy cows enjoying being milked on the happy dairy farm, but how many of us actually have spared more thought for what really happens in these industries, we’re only too happy ourselves to buy the more expensive organic or free-range option as if that absolves us from the guilt we still harbour knowing that no matter how happy the picture of the old MacDonald’s farm, we know this is a fantasy. Every animal still comes to an end in a way far from their natural choice and inclination.

I can sense the mounting justifications and counter-arguments–we need meat for our health or else we would get sick and die, if we didn’t raise the food animal they wouldn’t have a chance at life at all, what about if we were stuck on an island with only rabbits to eat, you can see how inane these points are, and generally stated to obfuscate the moral issue at hand. I am talking about modern day humans who now have access to a wide range of very suitable and healthful plant-based protein, and the methods we use to obtain our meatstuffs, even the question of whether or not it is our evolutionary diet (very debatable) isn’t the point here. The point is our denial of other factors which should be considered when making the choice of whether it is ethical to eat farmed animals, or even a beloved family pet lamb (just these words should put it in perspective that it isn’t but somehow we still do it–is that denial? ) What is it that keeps the majority of people still reaching for their burgers and steaks and fried chicken and bacon and eggs despite knowing what everyone should know? Is it denial of the truth because to face the ethical question front on would demand a choice and most humans just cannot overcome the continuation of pleasure, tradition, and ease of living, especially if it means realising it is a morally wrong thing to do so. So it is far easier to adopt cognitive disconnect, join the masses who are in your camp, degrade and exclude those who are not, and just keep doing what you want for one more day after day as long as it can last because at least you got to enjoy it and no one can take that away. Sound familiar? See how easy denial becomes just our way of perceiving our reality, and that is why I chose this example to prove that point. Every thought that is possibly going through your head now is a function of denial, one way or another, and none of it was even conscious before I brought this so called controversial topic up–if one can deem supporting active suffering of sentient beings just because we like it, to have any controversy attached.

I guess what I’m trying to express, which is in full agreement with what has been discussed, is that all of us have the capacity for denial (whether or not MORT is the primal reason) but we can’t see it as denial when we’re in the thick of it because that is just our chosen narrative. The way we dichotomise over overshoot, population control, Covid, Russia, just about any topic you can name, all confirm this. Only others outside that narrative (and usually the minority) can see that there is another perspective (because it’s their reality) and then call out the majority as in denial, which is exactly what the majority thinks of the outliers! It’s like that endless hall of mirrors reflecting back to you ad infinitum, whichever way one looks, there’s another image looking away from you, too, with the prime cause of the illusion being your own presence and perception of your reality. I think denial is a bit like that–it’s what holds us in our place, and helps define our sense of self by creating another version of possible self to bounce off of. I’m not saying there’s any right or wrong in this, it just seems to be how we are wired and until now, it has kept us on the survival ascendancy (that and a whole heck of fossil fuels!)

I think a good question to always be ready to ask ourselves in any situation to draw out denial is “What knowledge or understanding or different perspective that I may not have now but is available to gain or learn, would change or enhance the way I see the situation? ” Try it, it is very hard to allow oneself the possibility of overcoming our deep-rooted beliefs but yet that is precisely the attitude it will take for us to change them. Forcing education upon others doesn’t work as we have seen, it has to come from a self-directed intention to fill the knowledge gaps (isn’t that how we all arrived at our overshoot awareness and acceptance? We didn’t find this site because we were lectured into it, we found it because we sought it out) and then an even more entropy defying self push to change our actions to match our new insights. If the motivation is great enough, this can and will happen, but everyone has a different threshold before the fire is lit under our bums. Maybe that is why we need to head hell-bent towards full-on collapse, perhaps the only way to save ourselves is to first come within a nanometer of destroying ourselves. I still take comfort and security from the once inviolable Newton’s third law and trust that is will prove true for this case, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Let us pray for calamity that we will reach that opposite reaction with the same energy swinging us out of our doom as going into it, and preferably very soon!

Namaste, everyone. Thanks for bearing with another Gaia attack.

369 thoughts on “By Gaia Gardener: On Our Hall of Denial Mirrors”

  3. I’ve been to busy to comment the last couple of weeks but thought I’d share a couple of links. The second link does a good concise job of debunking the cholesterol con.

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  4. My Canadian government is running an ad every hour on television telling citizens they are now enjoying normal lives because the vaccines succeeded and that they should protect themselves from severe illness by regularly getting boosted because vaccine effectiveness fades with time.

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      1. It’s a very good question. When I step back and look at everything going on in the world it seems our species is going crazy, by which I mean crazier than we’ve always been. Canada has one flavor of crazy, the US another, New Zealand another, etc.

        My best guess is that our instincts are detecting ecological collapse and scarcity.

        Anyone have a different opinion?

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        1. I feel like we are similar to Canada here in NZ, but our Govt hasn’t gone to the same extremes as yours. We definitely have a culture of wanting our leaders to take care of things and do all the thinking for us. We might grumble about rules we don’t like, but we’re not as rebellious as Australians or Americans I think. NZ often gets jokingly called a nana-nation

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            1. Somehow related to university culture and post-modernism? Maybe also class politics? JMG argues the managerial class need to clearly signal their class allegiance since affluence is shrinking. The educated classes are in a game of musical chairs for wealth so they are incentivized to support the person above them and not to think for themselves.

              Canada is the highest with 54% of the population having a tertiary qualification

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            2. Hi Rob and monk,
              Just to add this titbit which seems to fit here in the current discussion about the higher education and Covid. Harvard, arguably the most prestigious education institution in the world, still demands that all students need to have the full course of inoculations (that would be 3 shots, if not 4 for this winter) before being able to enrol, despite all the evidence to the contrary for their safety and effectiveness, especially for this young cohort. The staff are recommended to have the full course, but not a requirement above the first 2 shots. Many other colleges in the States are no longer mandating the shots (but they had in the prior year) but it seems that the Ivy League ones still do, interesting, eh? These institutions are bastions of the privileged class, and you’d think being a university there would be some thinkers in the ranks who would be able to come to their own conclusions that this requirement is without merit and some would have the means to bring it to legal question, but I suppose the lure of being able to attend such a prestigious university overrides objection. I have a few other ideas why those in the wealthiest class might be targeted with the Covid fear and entitlement strategy to keep them lining up for more shots, perhaps a bit out there but fits in with the Great Reset agenda. Too late in the evening to get into it but if you’re interested in my musings, you only need ask!
              Cheers, and good night!

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    1. I finally finished listening to this podcast. I will agree that Michael Levin is interesting, but I think there is much he is wrong about. I think his perspective on biochemistry, evolution of life, and consciousness are completely wrong. It would be interesting to see him and Nick Lane discuss all those areas. I hate Lex Fridman and will not listen to another interview by him. Although he sometimes asks interesting questions I have the overwhelming feeling that I used to get being around people that are stoned (high on weed) when they ask questions they think are profound and to me appear stupid or come from left field. Maybe it’s just me, but I can’t stand him.
      AJ

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      1. I’m half-way through my second listen and still trying to form an opinion on Levin.

        I also used to dislike Lex because he seemed to be a “I love everyone” phony, but I stuck with him and now think he’s weird but genuine. Also remember he’s much younger and therefore more naive than you and I. I do like the quality of his guests.

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        1. I too like the quality of his guests. And you’re probably right about the age, he just doesn’t seem to have enough experience. Or be well read enough at times to be hosting this.
          AJ

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          1. Levin reinforced for me how complex and amazing life is, and how little we understand about how it works. Nothing jumped out at me as obviously wrong. What did you find objectionable?

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            1. I thought the part where he discussed the basis of life outside of Earth as being possibly with other chemistries as naive. I agree with Nick Lane, that life probably has to arise in similar circumstances to what it did on earth and that life is probably not possible without carbon biochemistry. To suggest otherwise I think is naive and doesn’t understand how truly rare multicellular life is in the universe. Also his discussions about consciousness and awareness seemed to me to be giving too much credence to the “anything, can think or have some type of consciousness” idea. That’s why I thought a discussion between him and Nick Lane would be instructive.
              AJ

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  7. I read Illargi’s latest missive… they’re must be something about climate change or our response to it that he finds deeply unpleasant

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    1. Haven’t read it but I think I get why so many otherwise intelligent people think climate change is overblown and/or some kind of WEF plot.

      The problem is that almost all climate scientists destroy their credibility by calling for net zero by 2030 and other ludicrously impossible solutions. Almost none understand the unique characteristics of fossil energy and how it keeps 6+ billion people alive and generates all of the wealth most people want more of.

      If climate scientists do not understand something so basic its perfectly reasonable to assume they don’t have a clue about anything else.

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      1. Yeah but I still find it surprising that Illargi is a climate skeptic. He’s well read.

        I think the science behind climate change is sound and it’s not hard to debunk many of the claims made by Illargi in his latest essay. I think Illargi is in denial of an unpleasant reality.

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  11. US Col. Richard Black says motive, means, and a public statement of intent all point to the US.

    Imagine if a close friend destroyed your means of survival because you were thinking about making a new friend.

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    1. First Russell Brand I’ve watched in months. He puts together a pretty good case too. A warning that he’s a bit cringey at times.

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    2. Sadly his message is probably not getting wide enough coverage. I have the MSM on every night in the background and have to mute it because the nonsense/bull shit is too much to stand – “Ukraine is winning, Russia is on the retreat, etc.” Not one word of how Ukraine is a Nazi ruled country that started this war in 2014 and is pushing the West to the brink of nuclear conflict. The masses are in for a big surprise when Russia takes off the gloves. Hopefully we survive.
      AJ

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  12. Interesting thread by Erik Townsend.

    He doesn’t say it, but it seems to me we are witnessing post-peak oil.

    OPEC is producing less than existing quota due to depletion of low-cost reserves. By announcing a new quota closer to what they are actually producing they may cause the price to rise for a while making it easier to continuing producing at the new lower quota.

    As a side benefit, they extract some revenge on the white house before an election for blowing up NS.

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  13. I would add that I think western leaders being “energy blind” as Nate Hagens calls it, or stupid and/or in denial as I call it, grossly underestimate the effect of energy shortages on European economies and social unrest as winter approaches.

    It is wise for Russia to remain calm and patient.

    There are really only two ways to interpret what is happening. One is the western spin: the Russian army is defeated and depleted and is being driven from the field. Putin is deranged, his commanders are incompetent, and Russia’s only card left to play is to throw drunk, untrained conscripts into the meat grinder.

    The other is the interpretation that I have advocated, that Russia is massing for a winter escalation and offensive, and is currently engaged in a calculated trade wherein they give up space in exchange for time and Ukrainian casualties. Russia continues to retreat where positions are either operationally compromised or faced with overwhelming Ukrainian numbers, but they are very careful to extract forces out of operational danger. In Lyman, where Ukraine threatened to encircle the garrison, Russia committed mobile reserves to unblock the village and secure the withdrawal of the garrison. Ukraine’s “encirclement” evaporated, and the Ukrainian interior ministry was bizarrely compelled to tweet (and then delete) video of destroyed civilian vehicles as “proof” that the Russian forces had been annihilated.

    Russia will likely continue to pull back over the coming weeks, withdrawing units intact under their artillery and air umbrella, grinding down Ukrainian heavy equipment stocks and wearing away their manpower. Meanwhile, new equipment continues to congregate in Belgorod, Zaporizhia, and Crimea. My expectation remains the same: episodic Russian withdrawal until the front stabilizes roughly at the end of October, followed by an operational pause until the ground freezes, followed by escalation and a winter offensive by Russia once they have finished amassing sufficient units.

    There is an eerie calm radiating from the Kremlin. Mobilization is underway – 200,000 men are currently undergoing refresher training at ranges around Russia. Trainloads of military equipment continue to flood across the Kerch bridge, but Ukraine’s offensive plods on with no Russian reinforcements to be seen at the front. The disconnect between the Kremlin’s stoicism and the deterioration of the front are striking. Perhaps Putin and the entire Russian general staff really are criminally incompetent – perhaps the Russian reserves really are nothing but a bunch of drunks. Perhaps there is no plan.

    Or perhaps, Russia’s sons will answer the call of the motherland again, as they did in 1709, in 1812, and in 1941.

    As the wolves once more prowl at the door, the old bear rises again to fight.

    https://bigserge.substack.com/p/politics-by-other-means

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  15. New 2-hour presentation and discussion by Jack Alpert to the Canadian Club of Rome.

    Have not watched yet but will soon. Quick scan suggests it will be nice to see Jack’s face and voice in a two-way conversation.

    Jack’s a very rare bird with a full understanding of our overshoot predicament and unlike others, has not given up and is still trying to find a technically feasible way out.

    Who else on the planet can we name that’s in this group? Maybe Korowitcz and Hagens except they avoid discussing the second most important thing to focus on: population reduction.

    Nobody discusses the most important thing: our genetic tendency to deny unpleasant realities.

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    1. Hello Rob, hope you’re feeling as bright-eyed and bushy tailed as your usual self, it certainly seems that your mojo and energy are back from the wave (and editorial content) of recent posts, nice to see!

      I’ll try to set aside some time to listen/watch both Jack Alpert’s and the lovely Ms Harris’ offerings; I’m sure both will be stimulating in different ways.

      I’ve been thinking about MORT more since we’re hopefully going to have a Nate and Dr. Varki discussion soon; I’ve found that it’s always good to be prepared for class to get the most out of it.

      The thought that stands out for me is that if we are genetically evolved to deny unpleasant reality, then isn’t everything that has happened in the history of the human race the natural course of our species and we are facing our natural conclusion in total collapse? Just like the natural progression of a locust super swarm is total destruction of everything in its path and then eventual collapse of the swarm. We call that nature and have absolutely no power over it. It just happens that our species doesn’t just devour all plant matter in its wake but absolutely everything that we can use to further our superorganism, the human species is as parasite to the biosphere. But we are still a part of nature and there are natural laws that we cannot escape, even if we are blind to think so.

      We are like fish living in water and don’t know it, overshoot and collapse is all around us but since we live in this predicament and have been for some long time now, it’s all we know and is as banal as the water. The plug has been pulled a long time ago but somehow the masses have just sunk lower and lower into the receding water believing it’s still a full tank. The very few who have somehow escaped this genetic tendency of denial of total endstage reality are the mutants–we’re the anomalies that prove the rule. For no matter how much we preach and teach, the true members of our choir remain infinitesimally small. And even if there are a few more recruits at this pumpkin hour (that’s midnight), effectively it’s far too late and the denial mechanism has already long served its purpose by promulgating ever more denial with succeeding generations of Homo sapiens, to the tune of 8 billion denial-crazed specimens of varying strengths and flavours depending on what we need to deny at the time for immediate survival.

      But it’s not all bad, after all, it’s our denial gene (and fossil fuels) that has allowed us to spring forth like gods to hold total dominion over this planet, but once that spark has run out, so does our magic, the genie will return into the lamp, forevermore. We may still exist as a species but most likely scattered to the four winds and in much diminished fashion, not that it’s a bad thing except for the exceptional suffering it will take to get to our new balance point. It took denial to get us to our apex, and it is also our in-built doom. That appeals both logically and emotionally. The clock of our species’ brief but blazing sojourn truly has struck twelve; we are hearing the bells toll out now and inevitably there will be the final reverberation. Many species got less time from go to woe than we, and none conquered the biosphere (and we got Bach!), so why should we bemoan it an unfair trade?

      And it has occurred to me that we who haven’t been totally blinded by denial have a critical role to play now that has nothing to do with stemming the tide of doom. Perhaps our role isn’t to fight to change what is occurring (and it looks totally futile in any case) but only stand as conscious (now I am trying to tie in your dream girl’s schtik) witness to all of our species, because without an opposite viewpoint as a foil, no reality really exists, for who can experience anything when there is no difference to experience? We are the ones who can see and understand both sides and all the nuances in between, those in denial don’t even realise what they know or believe because they are the fish in their water. By our acknowledgment of the denial of the masses, we are holding the reality that has been all our responsibility. We can make a space in our consciousness and thus the universal consciousness, for the fullness of being that is our unique offering as life. We can declare–This is Homo sapiens, warts and all–we have had our being here on Earth and it was good because it was so. If there is an ultimate consciousness, perhaps this is what would arise in awareness. Maybe a wise and compassionate thing to do now is akin to preparing for a dying beloved’s funeral, yes we should mourn what we have lost and to lose, but there’s more cause for honouring and celebrating all that was good and brilliant. We can accept our perceived foibles as opportunities for repentance whilst we still can hold these thoughts that elevate our collective humanity–it is never too late whilst we still have breath and beating heart to make reparation, starting with our own earnest desire to become our own highest and best and in relation to another, for their highest and best.

      Am I making any sense? I have just re-read what I wrote and I don’t think I’m getting through what I’m trying to express but I thank all readers and friends for taking this time to share a while with me.

      Now is probably a perfect time to tune into Jack Alpert’s latest contribution to the doomsphere, as reality check but also for any possible strategies to get us to our new homeostasis with more equanimity than what seems to be our current lot–famine, disease, war, all leading to traumatic societal collapse.

      If all else fails to bestow meaning and peace, then we can always go along with the universal consciousness ideal, that all is consciousness and therefore physical reality is only one possible manifestation of such and we’re all going to be fine in the end because everything we thought was real is just consciousness potential.

      I’m the subtype of mutant that sees both as equal contenders for my reality, what does everyone else think?

      Go well and in a blaze of glory, you shining human beings.

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      1. I think you hit many of the key nails on the head Gaia.

        It’s a miracle that two brains evolved to have this conversation.

        If there was not a single reader of this blog, I would keep writing just to bear witness to the universe. I guess we all have some form of reality denial. 🙂

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        1. It’s lovely to be part of a miracle and since there are many brains connected here, it must be an even more supercalifragilisticexpialidocious miracle!

          In fact, everything is just such a blooming miracle that I am overflowing with more than my share. I feel indulgent wishing to witness and be a part of more of it, for whatever may come, it’s still the only life we have and to finish.

          I recall the first time I reached out to you with my musings using your Contact form as I was too reticent to launch into a public post–posting is something I never did before if you can all believe that! I had followed your blog for some time (another miracle to have found it) and like many others, felt this was closer to my tribe than any. Something shifted for me to want to make this connection; I was finally ready to join this band of un-denial earthlings in seeking, finding, and declaring our versions of truth. You encouraged me to spread my wings and gave me the space to fly. Being a member of this community has been a sort of homecoming, for home is where our hearts and minds feel most accepted and at ease. In my first communication to you, I likened our meeting in this sphere to two ships passing in the night, just to see one another’s light shine in the darkness gives hope and comfort that we are not wholly alone in this journey to a certain doom. That thought has only become more crystal in these past months, all of us here are generously giving of our goodwill to help one another navigate through these interesting times. We have created reference points for each other so we can know what we can know, so we may be what we may be. And that has made all the difference, these miracles that keep our lives afloat, piloted to calmer waters, and anchored to face the storms.

          Thank you everyone for your courage in making it thus far, being a unique consciousness that ever bloomed this side of infinity. May you stay your self-charted course and always be guided by thousand points of light.

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          1. Gaia,
            I appreciate your views and comments. I’m not sure I always agree with them. I am far more depressed than able to have such equanimity as you in the face of our future collapsed state of affairs or extinction. I love how humankind has pushed the boundaries of understanding the true nature of the universe, it’s evolution, the nature of consciousness and the height of civilization. To see it all disappear in the blink of an eye is profoundly depressing to me. For humans to continue and become again the superstitious ignorant apes we were for all time before civilization is almost a fate worse than extinction. Admittedly that is probably better than extinction but not by much.
            AJ

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            1. AJ
              I read a book once called Don’t sleep there are snakes by Daniel Everett. It made a lasting impression on me. Rob did a review of it as well a while back.
              They live in ignorance but were/are very happy. We are well adapted to living a stone age existence and the piraha are evidence that we can live happy rewarding lives in the face of considerable suffering. They don’t eat vegetables either.

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                1. Perran,
                  Thanks for the recommendation. I read Rob’s review of the book and about Everett. I’m sorry, sure I believe other cultures can raise happy, well-adjusted individuals, BUT that is no different than having a happy, well-adjusted pet. The Piraha are unaware of the universe, science, even the greater world in which they live. Ignorance is bliss? Maybe for them, not for me.
                  I aspire for understanding and awareness of how I (and this universe) came to be, why am I here?, what is the purpose of consciousness?? Where is the universe going? WHY? Happiness is somewhat ephemeral; the rational explanations of a self-correcting philosophy (science) is what I want.
                  We lack a true understanding of nature and probably don’t have the civilizational time left to find out the fundamental answers to WHY?
                  Like I said above, the Piraha existence is better than extinction, but not by much.
                  AJ

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    2. I’m going to try to find time to watch this; thanks for the link. It’s good that some are still trying to find a technically feasible way out. I’ve been trying to come up with one for almost a couple of decades and have never come close. The only way out seems to be some form of collapse, the sooner the better. Some think that a resource based economy (aka the Venus Project) could work. I don’t. Some talk about degrowth to get to a supposedly sustainable sized economy. Seems far-fetched to me. Some put forward other ideas but even if one of them could hypothetically do the trick, I just don’t see governments and leaders world wide buying into anything that looks different from what we have today. Look at what world leaders have done for 30 years when confronted with just one problem, climate change. They’ve done nothing unless they see it as a benefit to growth (I notice the new UK leader just gave a speech confirming that growth is her top priority).

      But I suppose there is a slim chance that there is an approach (I don’t like to refer to it as a “solution”) which most people and leaders can agree to.

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      1. The people we’ve chosen to lead us can’t see reality and so everything they do is wrong.

        The existence of high intelligence life (with an extended theory of mind) is so precious and rare in the universe that although the probability of avoiding its loss on this planet is vanishingly small, it’s still worth trying.

        Most aware people disagree with me. I don’t care. I’m right.

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        1. If you mean that delaying the extinction of our species is worth trying, then I agree but only in that it is worth trying to get back to a state of affairs where only natural mechanisms drive species to extinction.

          I listened to the presentation, though not all of the questions. It’s an interesting exercise though, as one of the early questioners mentioned (and, I think, Jack agreed with), the chances of such a plan becoming reality are vanishingly small. Indeed, I think that chance is zero, partly because getting to 50 million people world wide may take longer than the lifetime of the hydro plants that are meant to power the new civilisation. If it happened much more quickly, then societal collapse would ensure that the plan could not be implemented.

          You may have posted a link a while ago, Rob, but the presentation pointed me to another podcase of Nate Hagens, talking to Simon Michaux who will go into to minerals blindness, which is an important topic, so another one for me to listen to.

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          1. I think I did post a link to the interview with Michaux and it’s superb.

            I’m thinking about writing an open letter to Jack Alpert because I’ve been thinking there’s a better way to sell his plan that guarantees success even if we do not achieve the ultimate goal of retaining modern science and technology. If we reframe the objective as reducing suffering AND retaining as many of our good accomplishments as possible, then we succeed by reducing the population from 8 billion to 8 billion minus 1. Success reinforces success so maybe we can then build some momentum towards the ultimate goal. And we avoid our denial circuit kicking in to block any progress because our brain calculates Jack’s chance of success as zero. Maybe I don’t need to write an essay because I just said the whole thing in a couple sentences.

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            1. Yes, Rob, that’s better. Much better. It’s the trying to retain a reasonably modern lifestyle that is the problem. Jack’s thinking that 600 million might be possible with a serfdom lifestyle is more realistic, except for the bit where we have to choose who are the serfs and who are the lords.

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    3. I finished it. Don’t care for Jack’s presentation style, it sounded like he was reading from a dry text. I do like his conversation style. I thought he did a great job of respectfully debating and answering many tough questions. He has excellent command of a lot of complex information.

      Pretty much everyone argued that his plan is impossible to implement. No one offered an alternative that wasn’t brain dead. Why did they bother watching the presentation? They should go to Maui for a vacation and not think about overshoot.

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  16. Cool discussion on consciousness with Anaka Harris.

    I read her book a while ago and didn’t buy into her idea that consciousness might be a fundamental property of the universe. But after watching the discussion with Michael Levin a few comments above I’m wondering if she’s just describing the idea in the wrong way. Levin makes a persuasive case that consciousness is an emergent property present in all levels of life including the single cell.

    P.S. Anaka is my definition of a hot babe. Too bad she married that loser who thinks he’s brilliant and yet is blind to overshoot and won’t debate the safety and effectiveness of covid vaccines.

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    1. Rob,
      I take back what I said about Lex. I sometimes hate his method of interview – it’s too conversational for me and appears almost stream of consciousness. But, if I overlook that, he is quite bright and if you remember that he is a AI researcher then his perspective makes sense.
      Annaka is brilliant. I might (probably) disagree with her on many things dealing with neuroscience but without a doubt this is a “must listen” podcast. All the big questions: what is consciousness? what is perception? is there free will? is consciousness emergent or intrinsic in everything? If she ever does a podcast serries it will definitely be something to listen to.
      As much as I disliked Donald Hoffman and his book maybe Annaka is right and they are talking about the same thing and she thinks his language is wrong/incorrect/??
      I will probably read her book at some point. I will go back and listen to more of Lex’s podcasts.
      Too bad that they are pushing the edges of scientific understanding of physics, the brain/mind, the nature of reality AND are unaware that we probably don’t have long till the collapse of civilization and science AND those questions/answers will be forever beyond us.
      AJ

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  17. I love Ray McGovern.

    Skip ahead to 1:25:46 for his brief presentation on Ukraine.

    The key question today is, will Germans step up and act like adults or will they blow it like they did in 1933?

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    1. Until recently I never thought about the influence US has over countries it conquered in WWII like Germany and Japan. The US extracted an unconditional surrender, forced them to create constitutions acceptable to the US, helped them rebuild their countries, and then retained a large on-site military presence to keep them in line.

      This probably explains why Germany’s president remained silent while he listened to Biden state the US would destroy Germany’s pipeline if Russia invaded Ukraine.

      And why Germany remains silent after the US followed through on its threat.

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      1. Merkel wasn’t silent when Trump imposed sanctions against Nord Stream 2. Maybe he got someone to follow through on his threat or maybe it’s just taken this long for his plan to come to fruition. We’ll probably never know. However, the pipeline was dead, anyway.

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    2. Notice behind McGovern on the bookshelf a volume cover showing a man in a winter overcoat looking down at a river. That’s JFK and the Unspeakable by Douglass, 2009. Subtitled Why He Died and Why it Matters. It makes the case for US Intelligence State (CIA etc) being the architect of the assassination and other sovereign state gross and heinous crimes. And it hasn’t stopped! Today neocon war hawks run US foreign policy only this time there is no Kennedy stopping them. Read John Pilger, Ron Unz or Robert Scheer about who they are.

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  20. Chuck Watkins has packed it in because he doesn’t like being attacked by angry strangers that are unwilling to civilly discuss the evidence and issues.

    It really does seem like we are collectively losing our minds.

    Today I was discussing our alarmingly warm and dry October weather with my neighbor, and we agreed the climate change trend is ominous. Then I said, unfortunately the risk of nuclear war seems higher. He replied, yes, we have to do something to stop Putin.

    A couple days ago I ran into another neighbor when out walking. We got talking about climate change denial and then using it as an analogy he launched into a venomous attack on anti-vaxxers.

    So, as we go forward with multiple challenges ranging from the ongoing pandemic, a major confrontation between nuclear armed adversaries, an economy teetering on the edge of collapse, an election that is nastier than the last, and other problems we don’t even know about yet, please don’t make things worse. Certainly the problems we face are serious, in many cases they hit emotional triggers. But we will solve them using rationality and empathy in equal measure, not by spreading anger and division. If you feel you can contribute to a discussion, make civil arguments that appeal to reason and our shared humanity, and recognize that the “other” might have a valid point that needs consideration. Don’t just try to score points with people you agree with by denigrating the “other.” You and your tribe might think it’s funny, but it is just making things worse.

    Please resolve to think before you comment, repost, retweet, or forward an email that is toxic.

    This environment that is being created by otherwise “nice” people is especially dangerous in that it gives those who are truly disturbed more of a reason, and agency, to act out on their violent impulses. Your on-line personas can have real-world consequences for others.

    So that’s it. In brief, I’m not going to expose myself or my family to the risk someone decides to act out against me just because they don’t like my opinion about something, or associates me with some point of view that I don’t actually have, but am trying to convey is in some ways valid and needs to be considered in constructing our response (such as Russia’s view of the situation in Ukraine). I think we are losing a lot of voices that probably should be heard. I’m not saying I’m one of them, but I’m also not alone in leaving or avoiding public commentary, and unlike mine some of those lost voices are important.

    https://blog.enkiops.org/2022/10/08/why-im-shutting-things-down/

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    1. Rob,
      I noticed this too. It is truly sad that what he said has individuals threatening him and his family with physical violence. He was a rational voice about Russia. Not pro Putin but trying to understand the motivations of those on both side and trying to warn of the dangers of nuclear brinkmanship and how it doesn’t work – leads to escalation.
      So sad.
      AJ

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  21. Thank you for posting this, and you accompanying comment. I totally feel the same. Collective insanity. Probably another sign of collapse.
    It’s a real pity to experience this: smart people with nuanced opinion are being shut down or must self-censor.
    So, all we are left with are these binary rigid extreme cuts: vaxx/anti-vaxx, climate change solutionist/climate change denier, Putin hater/cheerleader, globalists/nationalists… (And I wanted to add libertarian/conservative. But this has become such a big ball of mud. Is it libertarian, liberal or woke? And has libertarian become authoritarian?)
    All I’d love to do is speak my mind freely to confront world-views and either understand where I am wrong, or how the same reality can be seen/felt differently from different perspectives. But lately, all I get is epidermic emotional aggressive automatisms to some trigger words that prevent all possibility to lay bare hypotheses, information, beliefs and reasoning.
    I have noticed that one of the hottest topic to address is probably the impact of modern mass-control systems on our collective actions. There is some kind of defense mechanism in place there.

    At this point, I believe we should be shutting down the internet. Put a cap on innovation (nuclear, PFAS, mRNA and all). Plain and simple. But we are unable to do so ourselves (I wouldn’t be in this space otherwise :). So energy decline is a good thing, probably the only way out.
    Once the distraction of material abundance is out of the way, local and horizontal communication will probably resume. Necessity is the mother of understanding.

    In the short run, it is probably safer to shut up. But, as Mattias Desmet pointed it out, I fear there is a risk for collective insanity to run its full course, with horrifying consequences. I’d like to say: so be it. Only ash can fully stop fire. But this is both terrifying and saddening to me…

    I apologize for the negative tone in this post. It is a good thing that life is both bigger and more resilient than we individuals… And so, even armageddon is not the end. So be it 🙂

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    1. Well said Charles.

      Something’s definitely in the air. I personally feel a lot of deep anger at our leaders for not making public health the top covid priority, and in the process destroying some relationships with friends and family. If I can extract some revenge on our leaders, I will.

      Another sign of us losing our minds. I live in a small community on Vancouver Island. In the electoral district north of me one of the candidates running for municipal office has a campaign photo of him with a gun and a confederate flag. This is British Columbia, not Texas.

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      1. Hey Charles and Rob – I wondered if the big outpouring of grief at Queen E’s death was partly to do with people subconsciously recognizing the end of an era. Monarch’s names are often used to define eras. QE2 “ruled” during a period of progress and growth. We are about to leave this period.
        I thought people’s reactions to her passing were quite over the top. But maybe it was a normal reaction for our celebrity obsessed culture… people certainly lost their shit over Diana

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  22. Geert Vanden Bosche today with a refined argument for why we are on a path to a self-inflicted health disaster in what he says will be his last video message because the stupidity of our “experts” is making him too crazy to continue issuing warnings for what should be obvious to any competent domain expert.

    What I do I think? I don’t understand a lot of what Bosche is saying but I trust him more than my health authorities because he’s made a prediction in the past that came true, and he seems to actually care about public health. My leaders, on the other hand, have some unknown priority other than public health, and to date have got every single decision exactly opposite of correct.

    https://rumble.com/v1n5274-it-is-5-past-12.html

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    1. Perhaps he’s stopping because it’s really too late. Nearly 70% of the world population have had at least one dose, that’s 5 and a half billion people. I’d guess most of those have had at least 2 doses. So it does seem rather pointless railing against vaccinations at this point. Better to prepare for more than half the world’s population suffering severe eventual side-effects, including death. That will collapse civilisation just as surely as minerals shortage.

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    1. Is this kinda like cooling your house in the summer by opening the fridge door? Seriously now, I’m not quite sold on this idea, having just gotten a small dehumidifier for the caravan, yes it does fan force some warm air but not too much and at 360W consumption, it would be a very weakly powered heater indeed, but still not insignificant in electricity usage. I suppose for a very small space (like the toilet/shower area of the caravan where the unit is) it would take the chill off the air and dry it out to 70% humidity well enough, but that’s not going to cut it for even a small room in the kind of winters in Tasmania and BC, I don’t think? Of course the bigger the dehumidifier, the greater the energy cost, but even so, the biggest freestanding units aren’t meant to dehumidify more than a few medium sized rooms. The greatest thing in a heat pump’s favour is that the units are hardwired so we get the lowest electricity tariff for it (at least in Tasmania), being a main form of heating, so that’s what makes it even more viable costwise. A dehumidifier doesn’t have that benefit. But when all is said and done, nothing beats small area heating like a woodheater, and there’s nothing even remotely as warming and just total sensorially pleasant as wood heat. I think if I had to live in a cold climate through winters I would first try to hibernate like a bear or hole myself up in a sauna, I see both options involve keeping still and quiet in a small space. Now if more humans did that on a regular basis, maybe we wouldn’t have some of our current troubles!

      On another note, the bad cat was extra good today–alarm bells going off in Swedish birth rate data showing a consistent and significant decline in births since vaccine roll-out, and of course no-one in the health agencies is looking into it. El gato skirts the biggest elephant in the room by not quite coming out to say that this has to have been a deliberate agenda given what we know and can see so clearly now.

      https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/worrying-news-on-swedish-birth-rates?utm_source=email

      Rob, I know you would like a chance to tear limb from limb (like an angry bear awakened from the den) anyone who deliberately put us through this whole Covid nightmare, but still that doesn’t change the result that our population reduction manifesto is being furthered, just in a way none of us would want the responsibility for. I am still thinking that there might come a day when those of us left on the planet will look back at these years as the glory years, and sigh wistfully at the luck of those who died now being the luckier ones to have missed the years of firestorms and deluges, famine, war, rampant disease, societal collapse and aftermath. And then do we curse the ones who orchestrated this, or bless them for showing mercy?

      It’s interesting also that several bigger profile activists in the Covid and geopolitical arena have recently decided the same course to stop publicly commenting, perhaps they are now focusing on preparations for this DEFCON ground zero time, and best to just slip away as quietly as possible into anonymity?

      Hope all are going as best as can be, may the harvest days of Autumn stretch out kindly for those friends in the North, and those of us in the South may continue to hope for a gentle and eventually fruitful Spring. Our reversed seasons are each others’ hope for another turn around our Sun.
      Namaste.

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      1. The link I provided I think addresses most of your dehumidifier concerns. It’s not suitable for large areas, nor if you like things toasty. Under the right circumstances it delivers 50% more heat than the same amount of electricity from a resistive electric heater. I probably won’t try it because I don’t want the noise in my living area. I currently reduce my electricity use with a 17C setting (maybe 16C this winter) and a small propane heater and have a backup kerosene heater in storage. I may buy a heat pump next year.

        If covid has a population reduction agenda I don’t think all the doctors and little health ministers that support covid policies are party to the plan. Which means they are stupid or corrupt or cowards and deserve our wrath.

        I was thinking about what revenge might look like for me in practice. I think I would vote for Satan himself if he promised to put my prime minister and health ministers in prison for killing many people with their bad covid policies. It’s easy to understand how Hitler got into power after the middle class lost their life savings due to hyperinflation.

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        1. You’re right, Rob, there is no excuse for everyone who was complicit in the debacle, whatever their level of understanding. The doctors and minor health officers could have and should have stood up for the truth, no matter what the cost to their livelihood and own personal and family suffering.

          But, where does this spectre of guilt end? My husband took the first two shots as a measured response to the initial threat and then of course it became mandated to retain his University job. He teaches medical students, not clinically but in basic science but even so he is most definitely a cog in the medical system which has driven much of this narrative. He is not a stupid person, nor corrupt by any means, but yes, I suppose you can call him cowardly not to have resigned his job, firstly over the mandates, and secondly because he could have made that his statement that he no longer supports the medical establishment and his conscience will no longer allow him to benefit from it as his livelihood. He has remained silent, as with all his colleagues, whatever their views, because he is a human being who knows that without his job, we are nothing to this system and our family will be taken down by it. The most natural response is self-preservation, as uncharitable as it seems, because we know that no-one will come to our aid. I, too, am just as guilty and cowardly. As the partner of someone who is working to continue the current system, and I most certainly am receiving benefit. I should have made some kind of stand and declared my truth publicly, openly denouncing the medicos (from whom I broke ranks long before) and perhaps even pressuring my husband to quit his career. We may even have had to separate as a consequence of the unbearable stress over our shattered lives, leaving both of us (and my dependent mother) with even less power to maintain any kind of self-directed life. Should we all have gotten more serious than just attending weekend rallies and marches, endless posts on social media decrying the outrage, all in relative safety and comfort of our own anonymity and living rooms? Why didn’t we go into our communities health care centres and demand to have open debate with the doctors, chaining ourselves to the door until our concerns were heard and broadcast? Why did we not continue the stand-ins even to the point of arrest? Why did we not give up our ease and security to help protect the freedom and even lives of others? We have been furious at the injustice, but we cannot do more than rail from the sidelines. So, do we not share the same guilt as those who pulled the trigger? Of course, the quantity of blame is not commensurate, but law says we bear some responsibility once we know and do nothing.

          How can I live with this? I cannot, so I turn to my opiate denial. I throw myself into my work and think that I am at least trying to leave this world a better place in the way I can, whilst I shirk that I do not want to confront because I decided I cannot. But I am guilty and now I know it and this I will take with me to the end of my life. But I cannot and do not blame my husband for what he has chosen to do, out of empathy for his own suffering and understanding that his choices include my own welfare. And thus, following onward from this thought, how can I blame any other for what they did or didn’t do?

          Friends, if you can share any pearl of wisdom or comfort, I am most grateful. It is not easy to make a deal with the devil knowing that we all have the same shades of darkness and light. Maybe the whole point of being here is to become conscious of this.

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          1. Thanks Gaia. I do not think less of your husband or anyone else that took the vaccine in the early days. There was reason to be optimistic because pharma hid the real data from us and there was reason to be a team player and to contribute to group health.

            What really pisses me off about the medical “profession” is that they did not collect and analyze and act on public health data as we moved forward in time. Today here in Canada they are moving in the opposite direction and have stopped collecting data that shows their policies are wrong. That’s inexcusable and contrary to all medical ethics.

            I hope I get a chance to vote for someone that will burn them all.

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      2. From the el gato malo essay essay Gaia linked to above. I continue to respect the truth-seeking integrity of his work.

        i want to urge some real caution on claims here as we’re dealing in a bit of a mosaic, but this pattern and timing has been seen in many other countries as well and that starts to raise real questions.

        the fact that this issue was not only not studied pre-release but actively denied and called conspiracy by those that approved, advocated, and mandated vaccines is frankly horrifying.

        if this does turn out to have sterilized or significantly reduced fertility for a large number of people, it’s going to be the greatest medical scandal in human history. there will be nothing else that could even come close.

        but we have not proven this and so let’s be very careful.

        contrary to much practice of late, big claims require big evidence and high certainty.

        that said, the fact that this is not currently front and center at CDC and 20 other national health agencies who have the data here and could do the truly dispositive work like “measuring relative fertility rates between the vaxxed and unvaxxed” (data that exists nowhere in the public sphere that i have seen) is way past dereliction of duty and into willful data suppression.

        it’s outlandish to be having this debate now after billions took these drugs and disturbing to see how incurious the alleged organs of public health seem to be about any risks or side effects from this program.

        at a certain point, that stunning lack of interest itself starts to become evidentiary.

        if this theory is wrong (and wow do i hope that it is) then let’s prove it. open the fricking data. let us have it and analyze it. (because we’re certainly not going to trust the CDC to do it after the way they have played so many things here) why is no country with more honest officials like sweden or denmark or even the UK doing this?

        we could clear this up with utmost ease if we had the data.

        failure to provide it starts to look willful as though those who have it know the answer and do not want to share it.

        such a claim is obviously circumstantial and speculative, but we’re looking at an issue of impossibly large import and if the data can help us solve it, why will no one release it?

        what other answer is there?

        i struggle to imagine that no one at these agencies has looked at this.

        at what point does silence turn to indictment?

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  24. Have you noticed that almost all of the truth-seeking overshoot aware commentators do not buy the official Ukraine narrative?

    It seems a brain capable of seeing the reality and consequences of peak oil can also understand why Russia invaded Ukraine.

    Kunstler, every once in a while, writes a good essay without (too much) partisan red/blue bullshit. I liked his essay today on Ukraine.

    https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/you-can-always-dream/

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    1. I beg to differ. Kunstler’s blog was not really an essay but an attempt to ridicule counter-narratives to his. Littered with attempts at dark humour. And the idea that Ukraine’s president called for pre-emptive nuclear strikes on Russia is surely nonsense – he’s actually said he’d rather not hear of talk of nuclear strikes as it can bring them closer.

      Russia’s response to some damage to his pet bridge was way over the top and was always unlikely to deter Ukraine from defending itself or from trying to regain its territory, and likely to increase support from other countries. When it comes down to it, attempts to control the policies of another country which is democratic should always be condemned. 143 countries at the UN were right to condemn Russia’s attempted annexation of regions that weren’t even under its control (hopefully, all of them, and more, would regard the so-called referendums as a sham).

      Taking Russia’s (Putin’s) side on everything is not truth seeking and nothing to do with overshoot. If you’ve noticed various blogs tending to support Russia, I think that’s more about wanting to disagree with any line that the MSM takes. This is particularly egregious with respect to current climate change and environmental damage.

      In the end, it doesn’t really matter what happens with Russia or any other country. The only issue that really matters is the predicament caused by overshoot of all sorts and that will affect every species on this planet including almost all people who are alive now.

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          1. I mean our leaders need to go to prison for harming and killing many people by:
            – financing creation of the virus and then covering up their involvement;
            – discarding 100 years of knowledge of how to respond to similar viruses;
            – blocking safe & effective prevention methods;
            – blocking safe & effective early treatment methods;
            – pushing risk on young and/or healthy people that obtained no benefit from the vaccines;
            – punishing people who refused a vaccine that was known to not prevent transmission;
            – not adjusting policies as data on vaccine side effect harms emerged;
            – hiding or not collecting public health data that threatened policies;
            – implementing vaccine policies that encouraged emergence of virus variants;
            – gaslighting and not supporting those harmed by the vaccines;
            – destroying the reputations & careers of experts with opinions contrary to policy.

            I’m done discussing covid with you. Take your opinions on covid elsewhere.

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              1. Good to see to see your opinions shifting on vaxs because you were a total twat about it on OFW. But end of the day Mike you have to live with the reality that you failed the intelligence test and took the vax. I don’t think there is a single person who refused the vax that regrets their decision. you have to live with yours and pray that it doesn’t end your life early.

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      2. Mike – Prez of ukraine has stated several times he wants to become part of NATO and stage Nukes there. He has also pushed the “global community” to consider first strike against the evil Russia.

        Russia has repeatedly stated that it is in their constitution that they will only use nukes if they are directly attacked and their sovereign security is at stake. They also point out that the only country to use nukes did so without any threat to their country and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians unnecessarily. They would never do that, never have, never will.

        Russia has not gone into Ukraine “unprovoked” nor is it an “invasion”. They have spent over 8 years going through all the legal channels to stop the genocide of ethnic Russians in Ukraine, tens of thousands killed, and moved into Ukraine in a fully legal policing effort to stop the killing and end the illegal invasion of NATO after the illegal Maidan coup by the west.

        It is the US that has invaded to control the policies of another country which is democratic over 50 times in the last 50 years but I don’t hear you complaining about that.

        Read; https://williamblum.org/books/killing-hope. and get a clue.

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        2. Jeff, I’m not a fan of the US (which is not really a democratic country) and my opinions on the war in Ukraine have nothing to do with other countries. Any country is entitled to join in alliances that it chooses, regardless of whether I agree with such policies. Putin has certainly not ruled out the use of nuclear weapons in the war, saying that they will use all means to “defend” their territory. I happen to agree that they won’t use nuclear weapons here but I wouldn’t say I’m certain about that.

          I haven’t read about any genocide of ethnic Russians or any legal channels that Putin has tried to stop it. If that has happened then there may be cause for intervention, in certain ways. Can you point me at such information? Regarding what you call the Maidan coup, as I understand it, Moscow pressured Ukraine into not signing an accord with the EU and there were protests as a result, ending in the president’s ousting. I don’t know much else about it but it doesn’t seem a justification for Russia to invade Ukraine 9 years later.

          Your final sentence is a kind of insult (that I don’t have a clue) but I’ll let that go. Which countries do you think should be allowed an independent line and which countries should be subordinate to some other country? Personally, I don’t like the notion of countries but that’s how the world has been split up. What should be the process for altering the boundaries of countries and how should that be policed?

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          1. Sorry about the “you don’t have a clue” comment. I should have simply said that you lack the knowledge and information on that subject.

            Ukraine has had its sovereign status taken away from them for sure but it is US/NATO who have taken over the country. Russia is not fighting Ukraine they are fighting US/NATO.

            If you don’t know about the Maidan coup and the US interventions leading up to and continuing since, all of which has been totally exposed (“F#@K the EU” quoting Victoria Newland in 2014 when warned that their coup would blow back on Europe…and it has.). Newland bragged later how the 5 billion they spent really paid off setting up the coup.

            Ukraine voted to remain neutral with a continuing strong relationship with Russia which is why US did the coup. Zelinskie played a very moderate president of Ukraine on a tele show then he ran for real prez on a promise to remain neutral and be the buffer between east and west, a peace keeper respecting Ukraines long history with Russia and ukraines Russian population. After election he totally flipped and became a Ukronazie ordering the bombing and killing of Russians in the east.

            If you don’t know this by now it is because you do not want to know or are spreading misinfo.

            Again the US has done this kind of illegal intervention and other much more violent ones for well over 70 years now on over 80 different times. You obviously do not have this information but it is readily available. Read from the link I gave for one. You say you believe that all countries deserve the right to make their own decisions but the US makes sure they don’t.

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            1. Again, Jeff, I’m not a fan of the US and think they interfere too much in other countries for self-centred reasons. I don’t recall Zelenskiy campaigning to remain neutral and recall his desire to regain land lost to Russia and its proxies. I tried to find some info about his campaign and found that my recollections were reasonably accurate (e.g. this link).

              I didn’t notice Putin intervening in other former Soviet nations before they joined NATO. Putin is possibly the richest man in the world so I doubt he’s doing anything for altruistic reasons and I’m sure he wouldn’t tolerate any region of Russia trying to break away. In the end, it’s a matter of opinion whether his foray is justified or not. I happen to think it wasn’t.

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              1. The fact that you are willfully ignorant (not in denial because that is different) and deluded as to what happened over the last 8 to 10 years r.e. Ukraine leads me to believe you are trolling here.

                US/Nato has been encircling Russia ever since the negotiated end to USSR. There are thousands of missle installments all around russia most of which are capable of being armed with nuke warheads contrary to agreements. Georgia was one of the latest countries to pull a Ukraine fully supported by US and that didn’t end well for them.

                Ukraine is Russia’s line in the sand. Ukraine has been part of Russia for hundreds of years.

                I will stop commenting to you now so if you truly have an interest do some research but don’t use scroogle because they only show the lies not the truth.

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                1. Sorry Jeff, I didn’t realise that all I need to do is ask you your opinion and that will override everything I might learn from elsewhere. So the real story is that Ukraine is Putin’s “line in the sand” and all other justifications are just dross. By the way, I rarely use Google, but some kind of search engine is an essential tool and it did confirm my recollections of Zelinskyi’s campaign. But maybe that was an illusion. Sorry for the sarky comment but your style of reply really doesn’t engender a serious discussion.

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  25. Brief insights to complicated issues impress me. I like this comment by Jef Jelten @ OFW.

    …you can print all you want as long as you make damn sure it only goes to the 1%.

    Fighting inflation is all about destroying demand of the 99% without inconveniencing the wealthy.

    Problem is that supplies are dwindling faster than they can destroy demand so it’s about time for some serious demand destruction aka WAR!

    https://ourfiniteworld.com/2022/09/20/ramping-up-renewables-cant-provide-enough-heat-energy-in-winter/comment-page-16/#comment-392455

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  26. Nice to know there is at least one doctor in a senior government position that has both intelligence and integrity.

    I often hear complaints about how few physicians and medical care providers have spoken out regarding the toxicities and risks associated with the COVID-19 genetic vaccines. In my experience, one of the most remarkable Medical Doctors that I have encountered during the last three years has been Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, who currently serves as Surgeon General of the State of Florida. To those who are lately finding it fashionable to criticize physicians who did not immediately recognize and call out the risks associated with these hastily Emergency Use Authorized products, it will be hard to find fault with Dr. Ladapo, who was an early member of Americas Frontline Doctors. Even though Wikipedia has to put their spin on his bio, his integrity and bravery through the last three years shines through in remarkable contrast to the vast majority of academic physicians.

    https://rwmalonemd.substack.com/p/the-calm-covid-truth-of-dr-joe-ladapo

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  27. When it comes to denial it’s turtles all the way down.

    Here we have brilliant Jeff Snider calling out a misguided Nobel prize being awarded to Ben Bernanke for diagnosing the 2008 “financial” crisis.

    Jeff thinks the crisis was “monetary” and they are denying accountability of the central banks for creating the crisis.

    I think our species’ genetic tendency to deny unpleasant realities prevents Snider from seeing that it was an “overshoot” crisis resulting from a clever religious fire ape attempting infinite growth on a finite planet by using debt to mask depleted low-cost fossil energy.

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    1. I would say based on track record, he’s normally right, but early. I have a paid subscription. He covers mostly the same stuff, but gives more data. He’s also more free about saying how bad the situation is. There is some illuminati conspiracy stuff creeping into his work

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      1. Thanks, I’ve followed Martenson from his earliest days but never paid him anything. I mostly respect him but have never completely forgiven him for blocking climate change discussion on his site in the early days, and for occasionally dipping into click bait conspiracy stuff, both probably done to build subscriptions.

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        1. Yes. I did pay for a subscription once, but only for a month or so. Just like everyone else, he doesn’t have a crystal ball. I once listened to him about gold and silver. I bought some when the dollar price was rocketing up. Sadly, I bought at the peak and the dollar price of both has been lower, ever since. It was supposed to be a way to protect one’s assets but that proved wrong. That was over a decade ago. As I say, he has no crystal ball and so is often wrong on financial matters. I did have respect for him in the early stages of the pandemic but he eventually started to abandon critical thinking when it seemed taking a different line would get him more subscribers (IMO). Examples of that were over-reliance on non-peer-reviewed literature and not checking facts on some apparently astounding numbers on deaths and vaccines. The latter was pure garbage but he never apologised.

          I agree with you, Rob, about shutting down climate change discussion; I always got the impression he was a denier, though he was clever to usually not be explicit. I used to participate in the main climate change discussion but never got to call out a commenter called Stan who bet the starter of the thread, a scientist called Mark Cochrane, that global temperature would be lower over the following 10 year period, but it turned out to be significantly warmer, even when Mark agreed to use the flawed UAH data set. Now that a subscription is needed to even look at comments, I can’t see if Mark claimed his prize (of Guinness).

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  29. On a climate change discussion, l said humans evolved to be good at solving short-term problems and discounting the seriousness of long-term problems. To which a ‘person’ responded:
    “This is junk science. The claim that humans aren’t evolved to deal with climate change.”

    There was more of the comment, but it was just big words that didn’t mean anything.

    A lot of informed people are resistant to the idea that most people aren’t very bright…

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  30. Never let it be said that American citizens do not have a leadership candidate with intelligence, wisdom, and integrity they can support. Angry at the system and without hope? Look in the mirror.

    Tulsi Gabbard is a Former United States Representative, Iraq War veteran, political commentator, and host of the podcast “This is Tulsi Gabbard.”

    Skip ahead to 1:59:00 for a discussion on nuclear war.

    Rogan: What do you think is going to happen?

    Gabbard: If we continue down this path, we will end up in World War III and a nuclear holocaust.

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    1. This video must have been taken at a town-hall meeting that Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez held in her home district recently. She is taking heat for voting to send arms to Ukraine. The views are going crazy – it’s gone from 2.9 to 3.1 million views in just the past 20 minutes.

      I voted for Tulsi Gabbard in the 2020 Dem primaries – she was the only candidate with a sane foreign-policy stance.

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  31. I know the folks around here have some issues with JMG but his rather out there ” demonic influences on the covid hysteria” idea is making a prediction on the evolving narrative. He recently wrote this:

    I’d like to comment at this point with regard to my tentatively offered demonic hypothesis — the suggestion that the frankly weird behavior of so many people toward the Covid vaccines was caused, or at least worsened, by the malevolent spiritual entities who were summoned by so many Democrats in those mass magical workings to get rid of Donald Trump.

    I commented quite a while back that if this follows the usual modus operandi of demonic activity, there would be a sustained attempt to lure, wheedle, and bully as many people as possible to fall in with the manufactured consensus and get the jab, and until that had scooped up as many people as it was going to get, information about the downside of the whole business would be rigorously suppressed. Once everyone who was willing to get the jab had been jabbed and boosted, however, the goal of the entities in question would swing around to tormenting their victims, and the pro-jab narrative would break down and be replaced by a rising tide of horror stories about the jab’s effects. This would allow the entities to foster rage, terror, despair, and other negative emotions in their victims and, where possible, complete the process of moral collapse that demonic entities like to encourage.

    Fast forward to the present, and the new bivalent booster (aka Eight Mouse Special) has been shunned by the vast majority of the people to whom it’s aimed; jabs and boosters for children have also been widely shunned. The unjabbed are standing firm, and a growing number of people who got the original jabs, in some cases plus a booster or two, are refusing to get more. The consensus in favor of vaccinations is breaking down over large sections of the population. Now, on cue, the narrative seems to be imploding: we have the Pfizer executive admitting in public that they never tested to see if the vaccine stopped transmission, we have Alberta’s new premier going very public about the oppression of the unjabbed, and we have the Canadian commission on the declaration of emergency starting hearings.

    While none of this amounts to proof, so far things are following the predicted course. If this is in fact what’s happening, expect to see stories about jab injuries starting to show up in the media, and a fairly sustained attempt to encourage the jabbed to believe that they’re doomed. Things could get very ugly.

    LOL
    Let’s see what happens. (and yes, a bunch of woke witches really did try to summon demons to get rid of Trump. The world we live in appears to be very strange.)

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    1. LOL, I agree there’s something VERY strange about the covid behavior of our “leaders” AND health “professionals” AND journalists AND most citizens.

      There are so many things grossly wrong, any one of which should be enough to collapse the house of cards, like for example the damning book on Fauci that had no effect, that it does seem there may be demons in play.

      My belief system however expects the demons will have 2 legs or may be hiding in our denial genes.

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  32. In case you missed it, Nate Hagens recently did a good monologue on the evolutionary basis for spite and why spite is increasingly dangerous as growth stops and the economy contracts.

    I feel spite in my desire to punish all who collaborated on covid policies.
    Others want to punish me for rejecting the vaccine.
    Many want to punish Russia for attacking Ukraine.
    Ohers want to punish the west for breaking promises to Russia and meddling in Ukraine.
    Etc.

    Not good.

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  33. Cool! Alberta, the province next to me, got a new premier 2 days ago, and she’s calling out some of the covid bullshit.

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  34. Bret speaks with three active and past duty service members about their experience in the US military during Covid, they seek to bring to light what they are seeing and what it represents.

    Nice quote by Bret that sums up all covid policies:

    Whatever this policy is, it is not medically based.

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  35. You just can’t make this shit up.

    Two years after the fact it is disclosed that the Pfizer vaccine was not tested to determine if it stopped transmission.

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      1. We don’t communicate often. Only touched on covid once briefly and (I think) Nate does not believe anything sinister is afoot. Given that Nate is working hard these days to calm tensions in society I find it surprising he hasn’t explained to those of us that think our leaders need to go to prison why we are wrong.

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    2. I think it’s because of the same reason my academic husband doesn’t discuss Covid policies at his Uni. It’s a given that you just stay quiet on these controversial topics if you want to keep your job. We know freedom of speech is stone-cold dead in certain quarters, like academia, medicine, and the military. It pains me that everything we’ve built our lives on is balanced upon his retaining his job, but that’s the bitter truth. Maybe Nate still needs his day job to finish what goals he has for the Great Simplified future. We should be thankful enough that the vaccine mandate-sabre rattling has gone silent for now at my husband’s Uni, so holding at 2 shots (and if boosters are ever mandated, we’re out for good). Hope Nate is lucky there, too.

      I really appreciated his piece on Spite, by the way. I was a bit disheartened that our little group tasted a morsel of this bitter pill just in some recent comments (in my opinion), but thankful and encouraged that we were able to spit it out quickly and continue the usual measured discourse. I cannot see how spite is a successful long-term evolutionary strategy for it would just end up eye for eye until the whole world is blind, we’re already well along that path. I can also see how Altruism can also work in pockets and until someone comes along to quash those too naively unselfish and that would be the end of those particular genes and memes. Altruism might be utopia if only we all adopted it, and by self-choice. Not a chance, you say? But it’s my dream to hope that there still might be some civilisation out in the cosmos that tried that and it stuck. But we definitely could use some help from one another, right here and now.

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      1. You may be right about the university silencing Nate, although I suspect he mostly supports covid policies and so it is a shame he does not use his fine intellect to communicate why all of us who have studied the issue are wrong.

        I could forgive a university for stifling free speech on issues like holocaust denial or racism, but not a science based medical issue like covid policies.

        Medical professionals, academics, and journalists have destroyed their reputations and credibility. Perhaps it doesn’t matter since those “professions” will all be unwinding over the next 20 years.

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  38. Trouble in the banking system.

    Sometimes it seems like Jeff Snider is the only guy on the planet that understands how the banking system ACTUALLY works. Too bad he’s blind to energy and overshoot. Nevertheless, he seems to be the most intelligent source on health of the system.

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      1. Hmmmm. It seems that all the rain is down under at the moment. We’re reeling from flood after flood after flood in multiple states. It seems that records keep tumbling on a weekly basis. Homes and businesses inundated, crops underwater which will have significant follow-through effects in food prices. It looks like lettuce will be a luxury item for some time. People can only take so much before hope forever disappears, especially when there’s no insurance for any of this damage. Flood insurance, if even available, will be as high as the water levels, literally over most peoples’ heads. I think we’re about to see a tsunami of climate change refugees within our own countries, but it could be a case of out of the frying pan and into the fire–most places not prone to floods are ripe for bushfire. This is our new reality but it’s not easy to get used to it.

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      2. Hello all treehugger friends, I didn’t know where to slip this very unsettling piece of news in but it seemed this spot is as good as any.

        https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/16/ash-tree-dieback-uk-woodlands

        What a catastrophe to have only 5% of UK’s ash trees survive this latest blight, I mean, that’s terminal for the forest! Oaks are next and the pines are already decimated in the US. What of the tree situation in Canada? When we speak of population reduction, there is only one species that needs to be targeted, but so many others are taking the hit first. When the trees go, we will surely follow. I am thinking that Gail Z and others who have championed our arboreal guardians at least have been spared the actual final witnessing of what they knew was to come. We have that watch and it’s heart-wrenching.

        Best to go out on a walk in the woods, hug and thank a tree whilst we still can.

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        1. My recently deceased friend Gail Zawacki would say that the Ash trees in the UK are succumbing to the fungus because their health has been weakened by rising ground level ozone which is a byproduct of industrial combustion. It’s a worldwide trend. There has been a noticeable decline in tree health over the last 10 years on the farm I assist. I find the story particularly depressing because planting trees is a “solution” that might help reduce the impact of CO2 emissions. Gail would point out that all of the experts are in denial about the root cause as demonstrated by the Guardian article which does not mention ground level ozone.

          By Gail Zawacki: No Mercy (on trees)

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  40. LOL!

    The CEO of Moderna announced his company has a program that involves injecting messenger RNA (mRNA) into people’s hearts following a heart attack.

    “We are now in a super exciting program where we inject mRNA in people’s hearts after a heart attack to grow back new blood vessels and re-vascularize the heart,” Stephane Bancel, the CEO, told Sky News in a recent interview.

    Bancel did not elaborate on the nature of the program. His company produced one of the world’s most-used mRNA vaccines for COVID-19—as did pharmaceutical giant Pfizer.

    When the reporter suggested that there is an “irony” within the COVID-19 pandemic that it allowed companies like Moderna to “develop these other areas because of the revenues that came through the door,” Bancel agreed. “You’re 100 percent right,” he said.

    In August, Moderna reported second-quarter 2022 revenue of $4.7 billion, up $300 million from the second quarter of 2021. For the first half of this year, its total revenue stood at $10.8 billion, or a growth from $6.3 billion in the same period last year.

    The company attributed the significant spike in its revenue growth to the rise in sales of the company’s COVID-19 vaccine.

    Before the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) handed down emergency use authorizations for the Moderna and Pfizer COVID-19 vaccines in 2020, no mRNA products received full FDA approval within the United States.

    https://www.theepochtimes.com/health/moderna-ceo-confirms-new-mrna-injection-to-repair-heart-muscles-after-heart-attack_4791464.html

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    1. LOL indeed. FFS more like it. You really can’t make this shit up. Just like the Pfizer exec who stated that there was no testing for transmission (actually she inadvertently said “no testing for immunisation”, I listened to it 3 times to be sure, what a Freudian slip) and also another gobsmacking slip in the next sentence when she said they “had to move at the speed of science to understand what was taking place in the market ??? What the ? I guess she meant that Pfizer had do whatever means necessary to get their mRNA horse out there in time to compete with Moderna’s pride of the stable, long backed by Fauci and co.

      Sometimes I just don’t know if I should laugh, cry, or just vomit.

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  41. Liked by 1 person

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    1. Let’s all really, really hope that the Spite gene is dormant in those who are unreasonably minded. Maybe if we all put on our Altruism hats and focussed positive thoughts their way to keep them sane for just one day longer at a time, maybe?

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      1. The problem is Alzheimer’s. Biden has dementia and that makes him more prone to fits of anger/rage. And he is surrounded by neocon warmongers. What could go wrong?
        AJ

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        1. It seems all of the mainstream news (and therefore most citizens) believe Russia is losing. The people I trust say Russia will win decisively. It will be interesting to see how the west reacts.

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  42. Three years ago I probably wouldn’t have bothered watching a video with a title like this. That’s because I “knew” that saturated fat was bad for me and if my cholesterol was high (which it is) I would be walking straight to a heart attack and early death. Thanks to you Rob (or maybe it was Bev Courtney) for introducing me to Dr Malcolm Kendrick I no longer believe this is true.
    I also no longer think the Inuit were some oddity and I no longer think that it was the omega 3s that protected them against heart disease. That’s because saturated fat does not cause heart disease in the first place. Even today there are many ethnic groups that eat only meat or mainly meat.
    I think the evidence is strong that homo sapiens are carnivores as were homo Neanderthal as were all upright bipedal monkeys for at least the last 2 million years.
    Can the planet support 8 billion human carnivores? I think everyone that reads this blog knows the answer to that. But it can’t support 8 billion vegetarians for much longer either.
    I personally believe that for optimal health an individual should eat mainly meat. I also believe that for the health of the planet humanity should be mostly vegetarian.

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    1. Hi there Perran,

      Hope things are going well for you and your family in the Huon Valley. I’m still up in QLD, having stayed here longer this year to accomplish a few projects, so I have missed all the Spring blossoms in Tassie. Hope things pollinated well and we’ll have a good fruit harvest this year.

      It’s so interesting to me that people seem to be living in completely different realities around certain topics–overshoot is the most obvious and pressing, but it’s clear that diet is another. This presentation is 180 degrees diametrically opposed to what I have taken on board, no judgment here, just stating that there are near infinite gradations of viewpoints/adaptations on probably any topic, and that’s probably a good definition of life! I am humbled and amazed that humans can come to this understanding and in recent weeks since opening up this topic of the ideal human diet here (and really only to point out some home truths about the nature of denial) I have learned that there is still a long way for me to go in terms of acceptance and just being able to sit with all other views. I think the saying “Live and let live” sums up the attitude I am trying to reach, and I am really grateful for all the discussion that has highlighted this for me and given me the opportunity to put into a more skilful practice.

      I am so pleased that you have made gains in your health journey with new information that suits your own physical and emotional self, and I assume with thanks that you feel the same for my own. It just happens that we have completely different takes, but the main thing is what works for our individual situation, everything is just theory until put to the test and I do realise that there are many ways in which humans can thrive nutritionally. Personally, for my physical constitution, I was a steaming wreck on animal foods, but seemingly very well suited to eating only plant matter, which I have been for 20 years. I do want to instate here a huge caveat that abstaining for the most part from processed food was critical as well for my bettered health. Also, in stark contrast to Dr. Chaffee’s opinion, I also believe that increasing my fibre intake, found only in plant matter, was instrumental to my gut health. My personal experimentation left me no doubt as to what is the best diet for me, physically and biopsychosocially, but for myself is all the authority I have to vouch for. I wish everyone who is interested in this topic a smooth and healthful journey discovering what is best for them, for that is our own joy and privilege to do so. But, as you say, in our current situation, we must admit that optimal physical health is only one consideration, as now our biosphere is groaning under 8 billion humans and our domestic food animals. For sustained survival, and hopefully using those larger brains fuelled by ready nutrition (whether through animal protein or plant carbohydrates), we will have to adapt yet again to re-create our existence in balance with the planet. I am thinking that plants will continue to feature greatly for our benefit–short, mid and long term.

      One of my dearest friends is a confirmed paleo eater, being unable to process carbohydrates from fruits and grains, but eats meat, fat, and vegetables with abandon. Once we went on a holiday together and it worked perfectly, whatever I couldn’t eat, she did and vice versa. We both enjoyed heaps of veggies as our common food. So maybe that will be a good balance, for every concentrated meat eating human, there could be a greater number of herbivore-leaning ones. Really just like nature has already worked out, the carnivores are fewer in number and need to keep that balance lest they struggle to survive. Just an interested aside, you know when we watch those nature docos where a lion pride hunts down a prey–do you have any particular leaning to which side wins? It’s funny but I find that I am enthralled by the chase, it’s like a perfect choreographed dance between the two majestically evolved life forms, and whilst I know the lion has to eat and I do so appreciate their perfected skill in taking care of that need, I must admit I always get a bigger thrill when the gazelle bounds away to live another day.

      Well, maybe my new motto should be Hakuna Matata instead!

      Hope you and your boys are going well, Perran. One of these fine days when I’m back in the Valley, it would be lovely to meet seeing as we’re practically neighbours.

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      1. It’s so nice that different opinions can be discussed with respect here. I apologize for my intolerant covid comment above to Mike.

        I’m feeling a lot of anger about covid because the evidence is clear that more people are being harmed than helped. Covid truth should not be denied like the complex issue of overshoot that is so threatening because it has no “solution” and therefore triggers our denial circuit.

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        1. Thanks for the apology, Rob. It is accepted appreciated but I will try to avoid COVID comments except to say that I got thinking about your comment on truth seekers seeming to support your line. Yes, I have noticed that many blogs and influencers I used to follow closely have taken the non-mainstream view on that subject and I’ve thought about that many times, resulting in a lot more research, though I always seek to try to verify what those contrarians are saying, with mixed results. However, my main point here is that many of those people also take a contrarian view on climate change and other environmental catastrophes. So truth seeking, is always biased, which is understandable given that humans aren’t really rational creatures, though they like to think they are. Myself included.

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          1. If you find someone super smart with integrity like Dr. Bret Weinstein or Dr. Robert Malone that can talk for hours in detail without a script about why the 11 charges I listed above are not true, each of which on its own, if true, is sufficient to discredit our leaders, then please make me aware of him or her. I’m pretty certain all 11 charges are true.

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            1. Our so-called leaders are already discredited by their inaction on environmental issues, climate change being the most prominent, though not the only one. I think almost any action or words from our leaders discredits them as they all think BAU will go on forever.

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  43. Gaia, we’re all well down here. I’ve been insanely busy the last couple of months. My inlaws bought a 100 acre ex- plantation block next door a few years ago. I’ve been busy trying to get the last 25 acres cleaned up and sown to pasture. It’s been a lot of work cleaning up all the logs and rocks. Nearly there though……
    Please come round when your back down and yes the blossoms have been lovely

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    1. Well done, Perran. All your hard work is a real credit to you and will be so instrumental to securing your family’s more self-sufficient life in the idyllic Huon Valley. Whatever the future holds, to have a chance at working on the land and reaping the bounty using your own efforts is a fulfilling and meaningful life. I would love to see what you’ve done and you are also most welcome to our place in Glen Huon (give me a few weeks after I get back in December to bash my way through the weeds first!) My thoughts are never far from Tasmania and the current flooding situation in the north is concerning for being a new normal for our state. I think you’re pretty safe from floods being in the hills, and let’s hope we can dodge another bullet this summer for bushfire…

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  44. I’ve been watching a lot of material from the Schiller Institute lately because I’ve been impressed with their command of history and their calls for peace to avoid an imminent nuclear war.

    I’ve also been trying to figure out their core beliefs and have concluded that ironically and sadly they may be contributing to the tension that threatens nuclear war.

    The Schiller Institute believes that the push for green energy is a ploy to deprive the developing world of the fossil energy needed to improve their standard of living, and to preserve more fossil energy for the developed world.

    There may be some truth to this, however they seem to be completely unaware of overshoot and the existential threats of peak oil and climate change.

    It seems to me that arguing for a larger piece of the pie, without simultaneously understanding that the pie is shrinking, is a recipe for the scarcity death spiral that Jack Alpert and Jay Hanson warn of.

    Where is the political movement arguing for peace through population reduction and managed degrowth?

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  46. The most important question for me is Why?

    I’m trying to make sense of why so many people and institutions have lost their minds.

    It’s not just covid and Ukraine. It’s every important issue. Common sense is gone. Wisdom is gone. Ability to weigh evidence is gone. Truth is irrelevant.

    I think there must be a very powerful force in play that explains it all. What is it?

    My best guess is that we collectively sense the end of growth and imminent scarcity.

    This is causing us to tribe up in preparation for a fight over resources.

    Each tribe is hardening its beliefs and making its beliefs more distinct from those of the other tribes, and each tribe is demanding a higher bar from members to demonstrate loyalty.

    In this light, being injected with a substance is nothing more than a test to confirm which tribe you belong to. Ditto for supporting sex change operations in children. Ditto for risking a nuclear war.

    Anyone have any other explanations for the insanity?

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    1. I like your hypothesis, Rob. Yes, I agree that all the signs and symptoms concur with a terminal decline stage of our Western civilisation and this is what the final clutching at straws looks like. All descends into entropy even as we desperately try to re-organise ourselves into something that gives even a smidgen toehold for us to cling to. All logic and reason gone, just magical thinking that our particular tribe will be the ones to make it through. We’ve been through permutations of this before but never as globally apocalyptic so all bets are off on how we get to the end.

      I know you don’t fancy poetry, but for some reason when I was reading your post, The Hollow Men by T S Elliot came to mind. I quote the first part and the last, you will know it.

      We are the hollow men
      We are the stuffed men
      Leaning together
      Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!

      ….

      This is the way the world ends
      This is the way the world ends
      This is the way the world ends
      Not with a bang but a whimper.

      Of course when he when wrote it in 1925, the possibility of nuclear annihilation was not yet fathomed, so it may now very well be a Bang first, and then the mewling from the rubble.

      It is no small consolation that I feel very secure in this tribe that doesn’t demand anything other than an open mind to un-deny and bear witness to what is our collective doom.

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      1. Gail Zawacki also tried to help me appreciate poetry. I would take the poem she sent me and rewrite it in the fewest possible words without loss of any information, and I would replace obtuse ideas with clarity. My compression ratio was often 10:1. In the stark light, without deliberate obtusity to dress them up with mystery, the ideas were usually not very profound. Gail would get very annoyed with me. 🙂

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        1. Ha ha, Rob! That’s a great little game! No wonder you like haiku and limericks, cut and dry!
          Well, I suppose I could sum up the above original 5 stanza poem in just 3 words, (and this is a feat for me!)

          The world ends.

          There, how did I do?

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    2. I don’t think critical thinking is taught in schools. Actually, it wasn’t taught when I was at school but, luckily, my first company did send me on such a course and I was able to build on that, though having a scientific bent certainly helped.

      But the notion of “tribes” is certainly one that keeps cropping up when reading about this stuff. The need to belong somewhere.

      I could comment on some specifics but I promised not to. Personally, I like to think that I don’t have any fixed opinions on any subject and am always willing to change them in light of new data. For subjects that have strong scientific data that I can understand, my opinions can be very strong (e.g. climate change and many environmental problems) and it would take some astounding new data to change them.

      I often state that humans are a species, and each species has a characteristic behaviour. Whilst some members may exhibit different behaviours, unless they have an immediate evolutionary benefit, those behaviours won’t become widespread, so don’t expect people, generally, to change. This can be depressing to those with different behaviours but that will not affect reality.

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    3. Generally, I agree that there seems to be some collective mental phenomenon happening. Beyond what Jungian collective consciousness, or zeitgeist would describe, it may be that there is also a collective “intuition” or similar that is more forward looking than a tribal cohesion “in the moment” trait.

      Further, I think our technology enabled communication means have slipped the leash and are causing a positive feedback loop beyond our control and wreaking havoc by subverting what might have been a useful survival trait.

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  50. Holy batshit, just after I compressed T S Elliot into a portend of certain doom, this came through to my attention.

    https://viralimmunologist.substack.com/p/lab-in-boston-made-what-could-be?utm_source=email

    Basically, researchers in the US made a chimera SARS-CoV2 virus combining Omicron and the original strain and it showed 80% lethality in the mice with lung involvement. Geert VB predicted this could have occurred through selective evolutionary pressure but now we’ve gone ahead and created son of Satan ourselves and it’s coming to a lab near you, maybe even ripe for another leak! Aaaaaahhhhh! What have we done?

    And in publishing the paper (currently a pre-print but here it is fully accessible),

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.10.13.512134v1.full

    the recipe, if you will, for this killer recombinant virus has been broadcast far and wide, so any lab in the world can reconstruct this to whatever end. This is clearly gain of function research, illegal but obviously allowed to proceed for what nefarious reason. Will the nightmare never end? What fresh hell is this that is about to be unleashed?

    I am actually in a state of shock that the next stage of this many Act play is unfolding before our eyes. Now it is even more clear why China is keeping strict with the zero-Covid policy whilst the rest of the world has seemingly abandoned all care and concern over this pesky Omicron that causes no worse harm than a moderate cold (which is what it is for most). We’ve played cry wolf too many times and I am greatly afeared that when the real killer strain appears, the response will be draconianly totalitarian and there will be chaos as never before. And suffering and deaths will overwhelm.

    Forgive my histrionics but I just cannot be rational about this, knowing what we do and seeing how things have developed to date. It’s coming on winter again for most of the world’s population, and Covid will ramp up again. Still no preventative or early treatment protocols, still only half-assed reminders to take the booster and the new Omicron shot. This is setting us up as sheep to the slaughter. We are so woefully unprepared that we won’t know what hit us, if and when it does. It appears that Apocalypse has its own timing, not the one we would predict or choose, and there is nothing for it but submission.

    Maybe by morning I will recover from this frenzied response with a more measured outlook, in the meantime, please anyone tell me that I’ve over-reacted and you see nothing amiss here out of the ordinary.

    whimper. (That’s my latest one word translation of the TS Elliot poem)

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    2. if these researchers can’t be arrested they should still be hounded as bio-weapon makers.
      They need to be punished for what they are doing. And other biologist and virologist need to be scared that if they do anything even remotely similar their lives will be ruined.

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    3. So many things make me crazy about covid. One of the biggies is that none of our leaders have made it a priority to understand the source. Nothing could be more important to understand. If it was a gain of function lab leak, then that science should be terminated worldwide. If it had a natural origin, then maybe we need more research to protect us.

      Let’s discount the corrupt US leadership. Why aren’t the Canadian and Australian and UK prime ministers demanding their scientists collaborate to discover the source? Instead, they are silent. It’s unbelievable.

      For the record, I think there’s a 99% probability that covid originated from the Wuhan lab with some US funding supporting the research.

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      1. It’s the same reason why Sweden and Germany have turned a blind eye to the destruction of NS 1 and 2. Highly sensitive and for national security reasons. We are being played with by powers who believe they are the rule and law, even so-called sovereign countries need to kowtow before it without even a murmur.

        It is another day but I don’t feel any less sick than last night over this. Well, back to the garden as my refuge, I’m grateful for the never-ending tasks which keeps me connected to the moment as an insignificant yet ultimately integral part of nature. Every day is our first and last, then by the grace of life, we may have another chance at it.

        Go well and find some peace in this day, friends.

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    4. Steve Kirsch commented on this research.

      The work was supported by a grant from NIH, specifically from NIAID which is the organization that Anthony Fauci heads.

      Why Fauci isn’t fired is baffling.

      Summary
      – Nobody is talking.
      – There were no whistleblowers in the research team. Everyone thought this research was fine. We only find out about it after the fact.
      – Nobody in Congress, the mainstream media, or the medical community is speaking out about this.
      – Stunning.

      https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/bu-creates-new-sars-cov-2-strain

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      1. Karl Denninger comments on the bioweapon implications of this research.

        You sons of bitches — every single one of the political, medical and pharmaceutical folks involved in making, distributing and coercing, whether through word or deed and whether actual coercion or simply “advocating” for the use of non-sterilizing, S-only jabs should be indicted, tried, convicted and executed for setting the stage for a mass-death event that would never happen if only natural infection was allowed to course through the population.

        I have previously documented through multiple published studies that the jabs appear to inhibit, in many people, production of “N” antibodies if you get jabbed before you’re infected. It is not known (to my knowledge in the literature anyway; I might have missed it) whether or not being infected first, then jabbed, impacts your “N” response.

        If you have only “spike” antibodies and someone — any someone — puts this together as described in that paper and it gets out, whether accidentally or otherwise, you’re fucked.

        The probability is quite high that if you didn’t get the jab and instead were infected naturally you have a decent level of protection and likely will not get seriously ill or be killed by the same virus.

        This is the literal Holy Grail of bioweapon research as I pointed out in early 2021 before any mandates were issued against anyone and before the coercion ramped up socially, in job markets and the government and these folks proved my hypothesis and exactly how to do it.

        I warned explicitly of this possibility and that while I wasn’t all that concerned about it happening naturally (such a mutation is counter to entropy and thus, while possible is very unlikely) human intervention can trivially violate the usual path of entropy in mutation and if someone does that the results could quite-easily be a wildly-lethal outcome for anyone who took the jabs at or even much worse than Smallpox!

        Now we have demonstration in the laboratory that not only can it happen but also exactly how to make it happen and it was published so every asshole in the world who might want to make it happen now knows how.

        I fucking hate being right and if you got jabbed or worse, jabbed your kids there’s not jack and crap you can do about it if someone does this; the odds are extremely high you will die and there will be nothing you can do to stop it.

        S-protein specific jabs have marked every single person they were given to. You must assume that additional “boosters” whether of the original formula or some other will not attenuate this risk and might accelerate it. Only time may — and I repeat may — attenuate your risk of getting hammered if such “shows up” in the environment whether by accident or otherwise.

        https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=247200

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