By William Rees – Climate change isn’t the problem, so what is?

Thanks to friend and retired blogger Gail Zawacki at Wit’s End for bringing this excellent new talk by professor William Rees to my attention.

Rees discusses our severe state of ecological overshoot and the behaviors that prevent us from taking any useful action to make the future less bad.

Rees thinks there are two key behaviors responsible for our predicament:

  1. Base nature, which we share with all other species, to use all available resources. Most people call this the Maximum Power Principle.
  2. Creative nurture. Our learned culture defines our reality and we live this constructed reality as if it were real. “When faced with information that does not agree with their [preformed] internal structures, they deny, discredit, reinterpret or forget that information” – Wexler.

I don’t disagree with Rees on the existence or role of these behaviors, but we also need Varki’s MORT theory to explain how denial of unpleasant realties evolved and is symbiotic with our uniquely powerful intelligence, and other unique human behaviors, such as our belief in gods and life after death.

Some interesting points made by Rees:

  • The 2017 human eco-footprint exceeds biocapacity by 73%.
  • Half the fossil fuels and many other resources ever used by humans have been consumed in just the past 30 years.
  • Efficiency enables more consumption.
  • The past 7 years are the warmest 7 years on record.
  • Wild populations of birds, fish, mammals, and amphibians have declined 60% since 1970. Populations of many insects are down about 50%.
  • The biomass of humans and their livestock make up 95-99% of all vertebrate biomass on the planet.
  • Human population planning has declined from being the dominant policy lever in 1969 to the least researched in 2018.
  • The annual growth in wind and solar energy is about half the total annual growth in energy. In others words, “renewable” energy is not replacing fossil energy, it’s not even keeping up.
  • The recent expansion of the human enterprise resembles the “plague phase” of a one-off boom/bust population cycle.
  • 50 years, 34 climate conferences, a half dozen major international climate agreements, and various scientists’ warnings have not reduced atmospheric carbon concentrations.
  • We are tracking to the Limit to Growth study’s standard model and should expect major systemic crashes in the next 40 to 50 years.
  • This is the new “age of unreason”: science denial and magical thinking.
  • Climate change is a serious problem but a mere symptom of the greater disease.

P.S. Stay for the Q&A session, it’s very good.

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November 15, 2022 7:27 am

[…] Rees, W. (2021, February 6). Climate change isn’t the problem, so what is? https://un-denial.com/2021/02/06/by-william-rees-climate-change-isnt-the-problem-so-what-is/ […]

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January 1, 2022 5:18 am

[…] metaphorical comet headed towards the earth is not the problem. Our willful denial of the issue is the real culprit, and we have been able to do it ‘successfully’ because we are […]

Apneaman
Apneaman
February 17, 2021 5:46 pm

WE WANT YOUR SOUL

Mandrake
Mandrake
Reply to  Apneaman
February 17, 2021 9:15 pm

Workers of the World Unite! You have only your Happy Meals to lose.

Moonraker
Moonraker
Reply to  Mandrake
February 18, 2021 3:56 pm

I lost my wallet last week and no worker helped me find it. I would reconsider my position if I where you.

Mandrake
Mandrake
Reply to  Moonraker
February 18, 2021 9:52 pm

I would reconsider, but then I would have to upgrade to a V-2 rocket.

Ken Barrows
Ken Barrows
Reply to  Apneaman
February 18, 2021 6:22 pm

Don Draper approved. Don’t know what I mean? You’re a better person than I.

Ken Barrows
Ken Barrows
Reply to  Ken Barrows
February 18, 2021 6:23 pm

Re: “We Want Your Soul”

Perran
Perran
February 17, 2021 1:30 am
Perran
Perran
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 17, 2021 12:46 pm

Do you have a VPN? That can sometimes get you around these sort of things as you can change your location to the country of origin.

Mandrake
Mandrake
Reply to  Perran
February 17, 2021 9:56 pm

Crikey means gee whiz, wow! I think the show is available on Amazon. Big, huMONgous fan of Tazzy Devils, so I’ll be reading up on these fellows too. I found a possum in my compost bin last year. He hissed at me and I very slowly put back the cover. An honor to be visited by North America’s only marsupial.

louploup2
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 15, 2021 4:33 pm

“But all of those economies of scale depend upon eternal growth to sustain them.” I am skeptical about this claimed causal relationship. On what basis are economies of scale dependent on “eternal growth”? I’d like to see some analysis of this claim.

Furthermore, assuming that “billions of people” are needed to support high tech economies of scale appears to me to be an “either:or” fallacy. Why not just 1 billion? Was Henry Ford’s “economy of scale” in his Model T factory unaffordable for the few millions that were produced and sold? Or that iPhones wouldn’t be profitable at sales of a couple hundred million (10% of the 2+ billion made so far)?

I agree that dependence on fossil fuels is highly likely to lead to collapse, but grounding an argument on poor logic is not helpful.

louploup2
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 15, 2021 9:35 pm

Slower would be good! Have you read Ivan Illich’s “Energy and Equity”

Click to access ivan-illich-energy_and_equity.pdf

— “only a ceiling on energy use can lead to social relations that are characterized by high levels of equity. … Participatory democracy postulates low-energy technology.”

I’m not sure I agree with “plentiful debt requires economic growth.” If money is viewed as a proxy for “power to allocate energy and resources,” then we can conceive of economic systems that sever current undemocratic systems for allocation of energy and resources. I think assuming that debt is essential to a functioning economic system buys into inherent inequity and thus undemocratic politics (political-economy). But I’m not an economist, so what do I know?

louploup2
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 16, 2021 10:46 am

You continue to assume the existence of both fractional reserve and debt as essential elements of an ‘economy.’ I’m suggesting that in a truly democratic socialist society, decisions regarding major energy and resource allocations are made without using those made up structures. For example, if a hydroelectric project is determined to be a beneficial action, the decision is made to put the human and energy and material resources in play to ‘make it so.’ Why does that physical activity require the fiction of money? My answer: because money as a stand in for the power to allocate resources (including human labor) is required to maintain inequitable social and political and economic systems. I.e., classism, racism, etc.—caste systems. Sure, it’s very difficult to image how to implement such a truly democratic system for decision making at scale, but if we don’t imagine it, it will never happen.

louploup2
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 16, 2021 12:17 pm

Yes; one form was called “hunter gatherer” and I believe early pastoral cultures (e.g., numerous (North and South) American pre-European contact groups) maintained many of the same qualities of equity in their “political economy.” Clearly, translating those features into a high density high tech civilization is not easy. Collapse isn’t fun either. What are the alternatives that don’t rely on high throughput of energy? I’ve seen models that say high tech/high density civilization could be maintained (“sustainable”) for a small percentage of current global population. Chances of transition to that seem mighty slim to me.

And BTW, I don’t think I’m suggesting a “preferred system”; I’m just trying to describe the features that need to be included in a post fossil fuel supported system. If we don’t succeed in somehow avoiding the negative consequences of our addiction to growth—whatever the systemic causes of that growth might be—the survivors will be living in the proverbial cave, right? IMO, there are far worse things than a fall back to some form of pastoralism.

Ken Barrows
Ken Barrows
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 17, 2021 3:21 pm

How did we do? 230 million Americans then and 330 million or so now

AJ
AJ
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 15, 2021 11:28 am

Sadly, one is one of the richest humans alive and the other, I suspect, is not. SO, the sheep in denial will listen to the one that appears most “successful” and deny the advice from the other BECAUSE money passes for intelligence and wisdom (evolutionary fitness?) in this society rather than being assigned to the category of LUCK (where the acquisition of money belongs). Hopium is eternal to the human condition.
AJ

AJ
AJ
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 14, 2021 2:16 pm

My feelings exactly. I read his whole post very early this morning and I kept thinking – Here is a guy who understands overshoot and all the climate change heading at us full speed. He has in the past pushed biochar/regenerative ag but doesn’t seem to get that too many people are incompatible with any sustainable future. Last week he trashed the dog/cat loving culture of the west – and surely many have to many animals but far better to have a pet than a child. All his solutions don’t seem to understand that Jevon’s paradox screws you unless you have far fewer people and their economic growth/technological fantasies (of which carbon capture has to be the stupidest – next to going to Mars).
AJ

David Pursel
David Pursel
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 15, 2021 10:29 am

LOL, great video. That sure is a wonderful motorcycle. I must say (again, I might have said this before? 😙) I’m jealous of the gorgeous BC landscapes you get to explore.

AJ
AJ
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 13, 2021 3:13 pm

Rob,
Couldn’t agree with you more. It’s a Seneca cliff that falls straight down. If you continue to inflate a balloon sooner or latter it pops – it doesn’t deflate in steps! I’m amazed by the people around me who want a stimulus check – where do they think the money is coming from? Do they know anybody paying more taxes to cover it? Nah, just give me more and we’ll be happy. Someday soon (I think) the bill will come due. And in deference to JMG I don’t think we’ll go back to anything organized – even “state-lets” or small kingdoms is probably to much for a collapsed world to muster when the FedEx truck stops arriving and the diesel is unavailable. We’ll all be eating a lot of squash and loving it when the few chickens we have give us an egg.
AJ

Mandrake
Mandrake
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 13, 2021 1:19 pm

Part of the stockpile you keep in your hidden door panel next to the Tang? Don’t tell me. The Twinkies did not make it either. So much for surviving an atomic blast. My advice. Stockpile honey. It’s acidic and has natural hydrogen peroxide…will not spoil as long as you keep it away from water. Plus you catch more flies with honey…

Mandrake
Mandrake
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 14, 2021 1:16 pm

Yeah, bzzz what about the poor wee littl bees? Gotta support em right?

Ken Barrows
Ken Barrows
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 13, 2021 10:02 am

Better yet, his fossil fuel gobbling enterprises will collapse civilization that much faster. He believes in infinite surplus energy; I have read nothing to the contrary

Ken Barrows
Ken Barrows
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 14, 2021 10:15 am

He’s brilliant, and your comment is spot on, yet…

I have now listened to all but the last 45 minutes. Musk thinks we can electrify everything except rockets. Rogan was too much of a fanboi to discuss 18 wheelers. Perhaps Alice Friedmann should do an interview.

Musk is very optimistic–1% chance of civilization ending this century. Again, Rogan did not push as to why it’s 1%. I take it as a throw away line.

Hearing Musk talk about the range of these cars was interesting. It seems likely he is overstating the case, perhaps a little fraudulent.

He is excited that lithium can be extracted from seawater, so net energy isn’t on his radar. At least he realizes we need “a shit ton of batteries.” All the while, Rogan muses about the military using solar power. Musk doesn’t go along with that dream.

All in all, it may be the brilliant that throw the last bit of dirt on humanity’s grave.

madbobul
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 16, 2021 11:27 am

… and he is a father of seven…

MickN
MickN
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 12, 2021 10:41 am

Surely even this doomy outlook from Tim M is optimistic. Whenever I read any energy articles I always go back to basics and for me the base is the Garrett Formula. We need more energy each year (the amount based on GDP) just to maintain existing connections. We cannot deal with non increasing energy output (let alone declining output) without existing connections breaking – and we won’t know which connections are systemically important until they break or the order in which connections will break until they do.

I think of the Morandi bridge in Genoa that collapsed from poor maintenance after only 50 years usage. It has now been rebuilt after a huge effort and large material expenditure but it still only does what the old bridge (connection) did. It boosted GDP but will now need more energy expenditure to maintain it – and so it goes.

The Garrett Formula seems to be the one ring to rule them all.

louploup2
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 12, 2021 10:33 am

I’m not going argue with the conclusion in the first sentence.

However, the implied conclusion that post-collapse toasters will be impossible to make is logically flawed. The evolution of toasters did not leap from holding bread over a fire with a stick to a shiny plastic device with springs, thermostats, timers, and hundreds of parts. I.e., toasters did not leap full blown high-tech out of nowhere. Check out
https://cookingindoor.com/toaster/toaster-history/
It might not be easy to redo the 1909 version of the toaster, but it will be lot easier than the 2009 version. And the 1809 version will be even easier: https://firstwefeast.com/eat/2014/03/vintage-kitchen-tools-wed-like-bring-back/toaster-18th-century

Toasters are such a useful cliché.

Mandrake
Mandrake
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 12, 2021 8:20 pm

I have Emmott’s book in my library. You can read it in 20 -30 min. In sum – Human history told by 10 billion idiots.
He also has a YouTube lecture on the state of biology that I highly recommend. It is called,
“We need a new kind of Science.”

David Higham
David Higham
February 11, 2021 3:55 pm

Paul Ehrlich has been committed to raising the ecological knowledge level of people for about six decades,so you might be interested in this article. ‘Brink of catastrophe’ is about right.
https://mahb.stanford.edu/blog/ghastly-future-a-survival-revolution-in-response/

HummusDeus
HummusDeus
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 14, 2021 1:17 pm

I saw the short video but I disagree with their conclusion. From what I read, yes christianity made a lot of converts among the slaves and the poor but there were plenty of other growing religions (collapse of empires does that).

What made christianity last this long was the power of the state. Picked by Constantine as a tool for control of the army and stifling dissent, it was integrated into the powerful Roman bureaucracy and maintained a strong bureaucracy (from the pope down) after the imperial collapse.
One example is “basilica” (church, used in all romance languages) – the meaning in antiquity would have been city hall or maybe courthouse.

So my advice if you want to start a social movement is to ally with the powerful (Davos, WEF, FB, Google etc) and make sure they make your religion part of their bureaucracy.

Now that I think about it, there is a religion that is already there in the HR depts – woke. So maybe you can talk to them?

Mandrake
Mandrake
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 17, 2021 9:27 pm

I cannot envision a new social movement capable to doing what you ask…and believe me I have thought about it.

Life reproduces. That is what life does. You think we can outwit or defy our source code? We are not a thinking ape. We are a feeling ape that happens to think.

Mandrake
Mandrake
February 9, 2021 10:51 am

Not surprised with how things are playing out. There is a key misalignment between official WHO statements and the circumstantial evidence suggesting this was a lab accident. But we’ll never know right? Forget about a forensic let alone a criminal investigation. Collapse 101. Institutional failure. The low-grade loss of capability by a key institution like the WHO qualifies. They are not even keeping up appearances. Their pronouncements seem more performative than substantive – like kids, playing the role left by their predecessors. Output is deteriorating, institutional integrity is failing…and so it goes.

David Pursel
David Pursel
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 10, 2021 1:26 pm

Daszak is such a corrupted, and corruptible, bastard.

Perran
Perran
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 9, 2021 2:43 pm

My brother once rode his bike from Germany to Australia. It’s amazing how much shit wears out and brakes over that sort of distance. I’m inclined to agree with your assessment that the future will be one of walking (and running).

I enjoyed your reply to jef. I can really associate with you in trying to tell people about some of the world’s predicaments and having them just glaze over.

JessieHenshaw
JessieHenshaw
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 9, 2021 12:03 pm

All living systems, organisms, cultures, economies, and others begin their development with exponential growth. Science and society have just not realized that all those forms of growth provide working models of what we need to do to be among the lucky ones of nature’s upstarts to survive our own growth.

I write about it in my papers and describe the financial transformation required in my journal. https://synapse9.com/signals/2020/05/26/global-fiduciary-asset-investor-restraint/
https://rdcu.be/LdlR (Systems thinking for Systems making)

JessieHenshaw
JessieHenshaw
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 10, 2021 6:40 am

Rob, thanks so much for the question. You said, “I’ve scanned your site and paper but do not understand how what you propose can help us safely deflate our overshoot bubble.” The main trick is to recognize that the growth of new lifeforms in nature is the first stage of a three-stage process, first divergent then convergent development to create and perfect the new form, followed by long life.

The way nature transforms growth systems to become long-lived sustainable systems is by repurposing the small then larger amounts of energy it controls for use in its transformations (from stage 1 to 2 to 3); stage one used for multiplying scale then stage two for coordinating and integrating, to mature the design, then finally for engaging in a long life. Every new life has its end too, somewhat unwinding what growth built, but I usually leave that out of the description.

What that means for us, using money to steer the energy for development, is switching from compounding profits to multiply concentrations of wealth to impact investing for a more perfect world. That would, if done at the right scale, make it quite possible for us to transform our economic growth and development in the way all other living systems do, graduating from compound growth in scale to qualitative growth in perfection… The worry is the strange absence of study of the transformational stages of natural growth. It appears we are culturally not looking for how to open the door out of our mess in plain sight… Does that help?

I have a list of 100+ world crises growing with growth that might help outline the real dimensions of our tragic situation, FYI.

Click to access 100CrisesTable.pdf

Apneaman
Apneaman
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 9, 2021 8:53 am

How many “whole hours” should the inspection take?

How many whole hours do the experts at zerohedge usually take when they inspect a bio lab?

The entire article is cheap rhetoric written at a snot nose 5th grade level.

So now there is nowhere on the internet that is not poisoned by loud mouth scumbag Americans.

Mandrake
Mandrake
Reply to  Apneaman
February 9, 2021 9:08 pm

Nowhere on the internet you say? How about North Korea? China? Possibly Eritrea?

Mandrake
Mandrake
Reply to  Apneaman
February 9, 2021 9:14 pm

The article was a recap of AP News. You don’t like the AP?

jef
jef
February 9, 2021 6:57 am

As with most analysis of our predicament it is very Western Civilization centric thinking. A lot of denial is attributed to the vast majority of the population of the planet that simply doesn’t have the information they are being accused of denying.

Thoughts on denial.

I have a saying I cobbled together some years ago;

Some are truly ignorant.

Some choose to be ignorant.

Some have ignorance thrust upon them.

Then others like me
Reject all three
And live with a degree
Of misery.

Many accuse me of choosing to be miserable but I simply can not choose ignorance and denial.

Denial implies having knowledge then denying it therefore denial only resides in choosing to be ignorant. By choosing to be ignorant and in denial one abdicates ones freewill and becomes more sheep than man. This is not meant as an insult but a simple observation. There is, in my opinion, no possible positive element of choosing to be ignorant and in denial, not even in an accidental or roundabout way.

Choosing to be ignorant and in denial is a luxury only affordable to maybe 10% of the population. Over 80% of the population of the planet lives on under $10 a day. Half of them on less than $2. They predominantly live day to day and fall in either the first or the third category of ignorance and then too like me many are unable to choose to be ignorant and in denial and live in misery.

It is said that ignorance is bliss and this seems self evident for the truly ignorant for they do not have the knowledge of things that might interrupt that simple pleasure. Those who have ignorance thrust upon them may also experience this pleasure as they to do not have the correct knowledge, instead they have the wrong knowledge designed to allow them to feel pleasure. Choosing to be ignorant and in denial is usually done in order to seek pleasure and I suppose it works for many but for me it is a bit like masterbation, it might feel good but it pales in comparison to close, intimate, intense love making with a loving partner. I receive great pleasure from seeking understanding and coming as close to truth as I can. For me misery comes from not knowing and while there is plenty that I don’t know I actually find that interesting and exciting and encouraging. What ever I don’t know it is not because I choose to be ignorant of, it is just that I have not yet gained that knowledge.

As far as denial of death, this too, based on my research and experience of the world, is a luxury engaged in primarily by the wealthy Western civilizations. In fact most countries, cultures and indigenous peoples include death in every aspect of their lives. They worship it, celebrate it and many even embrace it.

Regarding the current and future situation it seems clear that all three categories of ignorance are increasing but the third category is taking the lead by far. With all the lies and manipulation coming from all sides it seems that most are simply giving in to the ignorance de jour and accepting it as theirs. I honestly believe, again based on my research and experience of the world, that the problem today, the reason we humans are not doing anything about any of the converging catastrophes of collapse is less from denial and more from being told either that none of these problems exist or that if they do exist its not anything that we clever monkeys can’t solve with technology.

The real reason we have not done anything either as individuals or collectively as any of the nations is for the exact reason that everyone says when asked. For the individual it is because they “have to go to work in the morning”, as for nations it has been stated over and over again “we are unwilling to do anything that will negatively effect our growing economy that allows everyone to go work in the morning”.

Very few people in the real world believe that we can cut FF use, consumption, and population and still grow an economy at the same time. A very definitive non-denial position if you ask me.

jef
jef
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 10, 2021 1:23 pm

I am not arguing that people engage in denial. Obviously they do. What I argue is that it is universal, that it is the basic behavior and has so saturated homo sapien”s psyche that it has defined our evolution.

Basically my position is that for as long as I have been aware of and studying human behavior as it pertains to our dominant position on the planet I have heard person after person going into extreme detail about how one behavioral characteristic or another is the ONE that defines ALL humans and all human nature, punctuated with the proclamation that that is just who we are, we will always be that way, and there is nothing we can do about that so the sooner you accept that, the sooner you can move on, ease your conscience, not do anything about it, and pursue your own pleasure such as it is.

This is all B#!!$H!T! ALL human behavior is elicited and we humans have known for thousands of years exactly what conditions will elicit what behavior.

I am so tired of reading about how (insert bad human behavior example here) is the crux of the issue and that is just how it is, and nothing can change that.

Humans are;
Greedy
Violent
Selfish
Self centered
Living in denial
Duplicitous
Power hungry
Absurd
Irrational
Mindless slaves to base instincts
The list is endless.

What has become abundantly clear is that a relatively tiny handful of individuals have manipulated the situation is such a way as to bring out the worst in human behavior then point at that and say “ see, this is just who we are and you need us to to keep these issues in check. Since the beginning of civilization certain individuals with a twisted sense of reality have seen this and have understood how easy it is to trigger bad behavior then point to it and proclaim that they need to be given the power to constrain this bad behavior for the good of mankind. Which on the face of it seem reasonable but what they do not do, and have no intention of doing is laying it out in the terms I have just described above, they have no intention of making the conditions that elicited bad behavior known and making sure these conditions can never arise and thus never eliciting said bad behavior. No they would never do that because that would eliminate their power, make them superfluous.

So instead of pouring immense amounts of energy into exploring the minutia of on or another human bad behavior PLEASE can we put the same energy into acknowledging that humans, just like Dogs, just like all other life on the planet have a whole list of completely well known bad behavior traits along with a whole list of completely well known conditions that elicit that behavior and we need to structure ALL of humanity around this well known fact.

I am absolutely certain that no one here has seen the full extent of the potential of human depravity. I truly don’t give a phuck about examples of bad behavior, not one of them defines us, …they are meaningless in the big picture of life on this one and only Jewel of a planet in the Universe. The only thing that matters is that we do not optimize humanity to bring out the worst.

What does define us, and in FACT defines all of life on the planet is Mutual aid. Not a single species would exist without it. I am not some rainbow skittle eating utopian saying this. It is fact and I defy anyone to prove otherwise.

We can and should treat humans as well as we treat our dogs.

jef
jef
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 10, 2021 5:12 pm

I understand. I challenged your years long established perspective and that has triggered the expected behavior of denial and dismissal. Human overshoot has been the side effect of a small faction of the population using manipulation and violence to destroy any possible development of a people and nature centric system of structure. In short Imperialist Capitalism which has destroyed every effort around the world to husband resources and develop slowly in a sustainable fashion by either financial terrorism or failing that “bombing them back to the stone age”. There is a lot more to it obviously but it is also that simple.

Read William Blums “Killing Hope”. https://williamblum.org/books/killing-hope

Why is it that only the evil phucks of the world get to understand and exploit the cause and effects of human behavior and “we the people” can’t touch that?

I will now leave you all alone in peace.

jef
jef
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 11, 2021 4:29 am

One last thought.

In that scenario where you explain the predicament to someone and their eyes go blank, it seems to me that you are the one in denial. You basically tell someone they are buckled into the back seat of a car that is about to go off a cliff and there is nothing they can do about it. What could you possibly expect from them? Or lets say you explain it further and basically tell them “you know all that stuff that you do all day, everyday to make enough money so that you and your loved ones don’t have to suffer and die prematurely? Well you have to stop doing that”. Well Thats a nonstarter. What is it you expect from them? Almost everyone I read around the subject of limited to growth and overshoot are essentially telling everyone to just accept the ugly truth, get comfortable with it and move on.

What would work is if after explaining the situation you tell them we will now pay you to not consume, to not fly, to not commute, to not pollute, to not procreate. We will pay you to go to school your whole life, to stay home and garden, to go on long walking, biking, train trips couch surfing your way around the world with a minute carbon footprint, to eat healthy and exercise, and to help others in your community do all these things too. I guarantee you, as the last year has illustrated in a way, 90% of people would respond with a resounding Hell Yes!

From what I have read here on your blog the theory is that it was denial that optimized human existence allowing us to reach great heights, while at the same time stating that it is denial that is destroying all life on the planet.

I believe that it is clear that there is denial on all sides but it neither allowed us to evolve or succeed as a species nor is it the reason we are destroying the planet. It doesn’t seem to me that you are interested in the “science of overshoot” but instead are committed to defending one hypothesis.

Humans are capable of a whole spectrum of behavior but you can’t single one out and claim it as the crux of the issue.

Imperialist capitalism has defined life on the planet and destroyed any chance of reasonable existance. It was Imperialist capitalism that created the Haber Bosch process and the need for it.

nikoB
nikoB
Reply to  jef
February 14, 2021 4:36 pm

Could you please use correct words Jef. If you mean bullshit say bullshit because putting in $ and !! is ridiculous. If you can’t manage that then phuck off.

JessieHenshaw
JessieHenshaw
February 8, 2021 9:03 am

I wish the proposals from scientists like myself would get heard, for how to steer the world economy to safety using natural principles. Bill points to the social basis of knowledge that appears to be centrally at fault and then says we of all species have the mental ability to change course. I agree with both, of course. What he leaves out, though, is a practical strategy for addressing the whole multifaceted tragedy of the commons as a whole.

The economic root of the OVERGROWTH problem is what’s more directly controllable, the financial practice of using profits to multiply investments. It’s that practice of driving maximum growth and its ever-growing impacts that are making the whole human enterprise unprofitable. That practice is the very center of the problem could be controlled by a MUCH SIMPLER STEERING SOLUTION than social movements persuading governments to control the economy directly.

FAIR_Money is a proposal to steer the economy as a whole to safety, mimicking the natural system design for climaxing growth… by SHIFTING ENERGY FROM PROFIT TO NON-PROFIT ENTERPRISES. That could be done by requiring MORE PROFITS TO BE USED IN THE COMMON INTEREST INSTEAD OF FOR CONCENTRATING WEALTH, …or be taxed. That is complicated enough but mimics the natural system steering to a thriving climax, and is already seen in IMPACT INVESTING social movements acting on much the same principle. What is needed is to focus the attention on applying the principle for the sake of the world as a whole.

JessieHenshaw
JessieHenshaw
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 9, 2021 9:34 am

Thanks much for the comments. Sorry I didn’t give a proper link to the #FAIR_Money proposal. It is on my Journal, “Reading Nature’s Signals” at https://synapse9.com/signals/2020/05/26/global-fiduciary-asset-investor-restraint/

The key to me is using the market system’s own natural steering mechanism to copy nature’s pattern of starting growth for getting ever bigger to finishing growth getting ever better. I don’t know why others don’t seem to recognize that familiar strategy of natural growth, coupling a first phase, of extractive exponential growth with no goal, with a second phase, of goal oriented qualitative and integrative growth.

tom wilt
tom wilt
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 11, 2021 5:55 pm

“Accompanied of course with democratically supported policies for rapid population reduction.”
How would you want to achieve that?

Mandrake
Mandrake
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 9, 2021 9:32 pm

Weird that it’s controversial. Natalia Shakova at the University of Alaska has been sounding the alarm about methane hydrates/clathrates in the Eastern Siberian Arctic Shelf (ESAS) for a long time. I think it was back when my dog George was still able to jump on the bed. I guess 2012 at least. I had nightmares for weeks worrying the planet was going to have a big methane fart that would put global warming on steroids.

Mandrake
Mandrake
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 9, 2021 10:27 pm

RE: mutation to make us friendlier – You should read Stephen King’s scifi short story “The End of the Whole Mess,” first published in Omni Magazine in 1986.

SteveSalmony (@SteveSalmony)
February 7, 2021 7:48 am

I simply cannot see how we ever come to know, much less respond ably to, the primary cause of human population growth if we ignore sound ecological research of human population dynamics that explains clearly why that unbridled growth continues as it is now. That is to say, if we choose to keep denying scientific evidence that discloses a root cause of the extraordinary increase of absolute global human population numbers occurring on our watch, we cannot be expected to respond ably to the worldwide climate and ecological challenges that are directly precipitated by an continuously exploding human population.

http://www.bioinfo.rpi.edu/bystrc/pub/pimentel.pdf

Corporate overproduction of too much food and unnecessary stuff, unfathomable per capita overconsumption of limited natural resources, and unbridled overpopulation actions of the human species are occurring synergistically in a recursive positive feedback loop. These distinctly human activities that compose the human enterprise writ large are primary causative factors of the Global Ecological Predicament.

Steven Earl Salmony, Ph.D., M.P.A.
AWAREness Campaign on the Human Population
established 2001
Chapel Hill, NC
USA
sesalmonyataol.com

fjwhite
February 7, 2021 6:37 am

Rees’ 14-page October 2010 paper might be of comparative interest to some. (Source: “What’s blocking sustainability? Human nature, cognition, and denial”, by William Rees, Sustainability: Science, Practice, and Policy, October 2010 — URL: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/49587221_What's_blocking_sustainability_Human_nature_cognition_and_denial )
In his opening paragraph he writes: “The modern world remains mired in a swamp of cognitive dissonance and collective denial seemingly dedicated to maintaining the status quo. We appear, in philosopher Martin Heidegger’s words, to be “in flight from thinking.” Just what is going on here? I attempt to answer this question by exploring the distal, biosocial causes of human economic behavior. My working hypothesis is that modern H. sapiens is unsustainable by nature—unsustainability is an inevitable emergent property of the systemic interaction between contemporary technoindustrial society and the ecosphere.”
Rees organizes his content under 10 headings:
The (Un)sustainability Conundrum
Looking Ourselves in the Eye
The Human Nature of Unsustainability
Hypothesis: Humans are Unsustainable by Nature
The Biological “Presets”
Sociocultural Reinforcement
Beyond Carrying Capacity: The Ecofootprints of Technoexuberance
Reason, Emotion, and Instinct: Understanding the Triune Brain
Toward Resolution: Can Humanity Become Sustainable?
Can We Reframe the Future? — Survival 2100, Inevitable Pushback

louploup2
February 6, 2021 7:33 pm

At 42:40: “a violent crash; it won’t be pleasant for anybody…” lol

peakaustria
Reply to  louploup2
February 7, 2021 1:58 am

Bad prepared for the coming. Even Feminismus has slept, nearly only way to get status for a woman is to choose a male that is acting in risky behaviour(Denial) and with MPP, so it seems financially potent enough to help to replicate Gens.

louploup2
February 6, 2021 7:19 pm

Do you have a link to Rees’s slides? Really good (and scary) summary. thanks

fjwhite
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 17, 2021 7:18 am

Two points —

1) Re slides, I have added to my blog my complete transcript of Rees’ keynote address, including images of all 36 slides — not perfect but good enough.
https://citizenactionmonitor.wordpress.com/2021/02/14/if-humanitys-critical-planetary-overshoot-is-not-corrected-deliberately-nature-will-impose-a-chaotic-implosion/

2) In case folks have not already seen this, REES AND HAGENS participated in a Jan 31 discussion titled “OMEGA – Underestimating the Challenges of Avoiding a Ghastly Future”

Info about the event opens with this note:
“We are joined by Paul Ehrlich, Joan Diamond, Gerardo Ceballos, Nate Hagens, Bill Rees and others. The conversation will be hosted by Michael Lerner to discuss the recently published scientific article entitled Underestimating the Challenges of Avoiding a Ghastly Future. An international group of 17 leading physical and social scientists, including OMEGA Advisory Board member Joan Diamond, have produced a comprehensive yet concise assessment of the state of civilization, warning that the outlook is more dire and dangerous than is generally understood. “

fjwhite
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 17, 2021 11:45 am

Rob, you’re very welcome.
Re the slides, for those who may not know how to capture images from my transcript, here’s the “how to” —

Two Notes —
A) I gave all 36 slides simple number names from 1 to 36 with a .jpg file type to signify an image file — e.g. “1.jpg”, 24.jpg, etc
B) You MAY find some slides with a .webp extension, e.g. “5.webp”. See step 4b below on what to do.

How to capture the slides and save them to your PC —
1) Move your mouse pointer to the slide you want to capture
2) Right click on the slide you’re capturing to open a menu of options
3) Find the option “Save image as…” in the menu list and left click on it
4a) A window opens and you will see “File Name: 3.jpg” (for example). And below that “Save as type:” (*.jpg). Below that you see the buttons Save and Cancel. You can keep the File name as is or change it.
4b) If the slide’s File name has a “.webp” type CHANGE THE NAME TYPE to .jpg (No need to change “Save as type”, just leave it as)
5) Click on the “Save” button
6) You should find the saved file wherever you have chosen downloaded files to be saved.
That’s it. Good luck.

Mandrake
Mandrake
Reply to  Rob Mielcarski
February 17, 2021 8:31 pm

Discussion of over-population is TABOO! Akin to talking about threesomes or orgies with a bunch of uptight normies.

David Higham
David Higham
Reply to  fjwhite
February 17, 2021 4:26 pm

You might like to fix the typo at 23:04 ‘ …..you can sew it’s rising…..’

shastatodd
shastatodd
February 6, 2021 4:46 pm

“We are tracking to the Limit to Growth study’s standard model and should expect major systemic crashes in the next 40 to 50 years.”

um, make that 5 to 10 years.

Mandrake
Mandrake
Reply to  shastatodd
February 9, 2021 10:10 pm

Last year I had a little tête-à-tête with a clairvoyant Madame Sosotris impersonator. I asked her when TEOTWAKI was goin’ to happen and she said “soon. soon.” That will be five dollars. Disappointed by her vagueness, I visited the lady who throws the chicken bones and she said 2030. Ahhh…yes! Just as the Meadows have been predicting. The chicken bones never lie! As I walked away I heard her say, “Maybe longer.” I would really like to figure out the timing of this crash so I can calendar when to get my Lasik surgery.

Michael Mielke
Michael Mielke
Reply to  Mandrake
February 18, 2021 6:36 am

Mandrake,

Get it NOW, breakdowns need to be seen & heard!

shastatodd
shastatodd
Reply to  Mandrake
February 18, 2021 5:15 pm

i don’t see it as an “event” but a process which… if you look around, it is pretty easy to see this has already begun.